Is this it? Have we reached the basement? Is this our cultural rock bottom moment? Is this when our society wakes up behind a liquor store dumpster in the middle of the afternoon, stumbles to its feet, catches its reflection in a puddle of urine and finally whispers, “I have a problem”?
Have we reached the depths of our own delusions? Can it now be said that we have nowhere to go but up?
Stop. Don’t answer these questions. Let me have my silver lining.
Let me fantasize that this story will be enough to cause many of us to snap to our senses. It’s a story about a poor, confused child and a predatory, confused culture eager to use her as a mascot for their latest ‘civil rights’ cause de jour.
It’s a story about Jeff and Hillary Whittington, who were given the coveted Inspiration Award at the famed and prestigious Harvey Milk Diversity Breakfast (you might remember Harvey Milk as the statutory rapist who had sex with a bunch of drug addicted teenage boys). How have the Whittingtons earned such a high and pointless honor? Well, they’ve made some YouTube videos and bragged to the media about their daughter, Ryland, who began to “transition” into a boy at the age of two.
A wild claim, you would think.
…If you’re a bigot.
Yes, the debate is over. The tale of the “transgender” 5-year-old was told to unanimous national applause. Media outlets hailed it as “moving” and “inspirational.” Articles from mainstream sources promised that the story would cause you to weep tears of joy. Millions of people flocked to Twitter and Facebook to shout their undying praise and admiration. A consensus was formed: toddlers can determine their own gender, and that’s it. The matter is settled. Another bit of progressive mania that now must be accepted as infallible doctrine.
Oh, but not just accepted — believed, honored, celebrated. So much as furrow your brow or scratch your head when the Whittingtons talk about how their daughter became their son when she was five, and you will expose yourself as a dangerous, backwards, ‘transphobic’ Neanderthal. To question the existence of ‘transgender’ toddlers is to question the existence of the sun. To defy the transgender-baby-dogma is to believe that the Earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese.
Pull out the stone tablets. Engrave the words ‘transgender toddlers.’
It’s here to stay.
It’s part of our new reality.
It’s the wave of the future.
And it’s nonsense.
A tragedy. A tragedy of nonsense. Horrible, abusive, pathetic, sad, bizarre, tragic nonsense.
This child didn’t ‘choose’ her gender. She didn’t choose to cut her hair and dress like a boy. Kids that age can only wear what you put on them, sport the haircut you assign them, play with the toys you give them, and mostly believe what you tell them they should believe. Tell them there’s a magical fat man who flies down the chimney to bring them presents every Christmas, and they’ll believe it. Tell them that they get to choose their own gender like it’s an ice cream flavor at Baskin Robbins, and they’ll believe it. Their reality is whatever you construct for them.
They are still years from approaching the age of reason. They are not reasonable beings. That’s why they can’t be left at home alone. That’s why they don’t vote. That’s why they don’t own homes or take out loans at the bank. They can’t be trusted to refrain from eating your pocket change, yet these parents think they should be able to exercise radical control over their ‘gender identity’?
That’s insane. This girl did not choose to be a boy. She can’t. She also didn’t choose to be a world famous face for the transgender movement. Her parents made that decision. Her parents decided to make her a ‘boy’ and alert the press.
It’s interesting, when you think about it. If a girl declares that she’s a lesbian, progressives would tell us that this identity cannot be modified. It is ingrained in her soul and nothing can ever alter it. Her sexual preference is immutable. Her sex, however? Fluid. Subject to change. And what if she ‘becomes a boy’ and still finds herself attracted to girls? By their standards, she’s just turned herself straight. But isn’t that impossible? So is she still gay? But if she’s still gay then she’s still a woman, which means she’s not a man, which means your sex can’t be changed.
Any of this making sense?
Hello?
Anyone?
Indeed, the moment you wade into liberal “gender theory” you will be violently assaulted by a gauntlet of glaring contradictions.
They tell us in one breath that it’s OK for boys to like pink and girls to like blue, and we should stop expecting our sons to play sports and our daughters to play with dolls. These are just social norms, they say. We should not subscribe to such archaic notions. But suddenly they proceed to derail their own narrative when they next inform you that a girl liking blue and a boy playing with dolls might actually be a sign that the girl is a boy and the boy is a girl.
Wait.
Are colors and toys and sports irrelevant things that have been arbitrarily assigned to certain genders by an oppressive society, or is the color pink so connected with the female identity that a female’s aversion to it is an indication that she isn’t really a female?
Who’s really enforcing gender roles and social norms here? I’d say it’s the people who call a girl transgender if she’d rather join a baseball league than the ballet.
Ryland showed signs of being transgender because she didn’t like girly toys and she didn’t like to wear dresses. My first thought is that maybe she’s a girl who just doesn’t like girly toys or dresses. But apparently girly toys and dresses are so important to the female identity that you lose the identity when you reject the toys and dresses.
The YouTube video displays photos of Ryland in cowboy outfits and Spider-Man costumes, while the text on the screen explains: “Ryland began to show an aversion to anything feminine.”
Hold on. Who says cowboys and superheroes are masculine? Who says a girl can’t be Spider-Man for Halloween? I thought liberals would be the first ones in line to condemn any idea that a girl has to be a boy if she likes things that society commonly associates with boys.
3,173 Comments
Leave a comment[…] of the author’s arguments. S/he also thinks children are qualified to make this decision at around age 2 or 3. And s/he has the audacity of saying all of this — raising them to be confused, telling them […]
I agree the kid should wait. To be honest though hormones in young boys and girl are extremely close until puberty. So a girl dressing as a boy it not really a big deal… it is just gender… but to actually get surgery to change your sex at that young of age is a bit nuts. You guys do know sex and gender are 2 different things right? Just making sure. To start out I am trans. I knew since I was about 6. I knew how I felt and I had no idea why. It was confusing and frustrating and as I got older it got even more frustrating. I was just too logical to ever do anything about it early on. I was just like wtf why do I feel this way I am a damn good looking female. Why do I feel insanely uncomfortable with my body and gender. To this day I have no damn clue, but I had to be happy. I was 24 when I made the choice. I knew I wouldn’t feel right until I changed. It still makes no sense still and I don’t care. It is a great choice I made and I feel great. I mean really who cares. I’m not sure why people get so bent out of shape. Just be glad you never had to deal with this crazy sht. To also comment about the whole lesbians are lesbians forever it is in their soul. That’s bogus. People in general are very fluid sexually. And people do not have souls to begin with. You cant just assume people have souls without clear evidence. Every religion can easily be proven incorrect. We can measure speed of light and we can measure the distance of the stars. Therefore, we can measure just how long it takes the light to reach the earth. The cosmos is insanely older compared to what all the religious texts say. So any ways to continue, for me I’m not into dude but every single ftm I know in person is into dudes. Just because people are uncomfortable with their bodies doesn’t mean their sexual preferences change. Trans has absolutely nothing to do with what you prefer in bed. A lot of people make that mistake. People are starting to be more accepting with gay and lesbians and I feel the less it is taboo and just normal, people will have more freedoms to explore who they are as a person. There is no afterlife… at least no logical explanation of one… so let’s stop worrying so much about gender and maybe more about our environment that we are destroying every day.
I have to agree with Matt. Transgenderism is a disorder of reality, not one of the body.
I grew up pretending, and believing, that I was a boy. I wore boys clothes and played boys games. I hated dolls and pink, ponies and glitter. I soaped up my hair in the tub to see what I looked like as a boy. I wore my brother’s hats with my hair pinned under it, I called myself ‘Jack’, and told my friends and some family that I was now a boy named Jack. They thought it was cute. They thought it was funny. And I’m glad that that’s all they thought it was.
I’m glad I grew up with parents that know better, and it’s because of them that I didn’t get labeled ‘trans-kid’ and have my entire life flipped around. I was young, I like playing boy. If my parents told me I could have been one, I would have jumped at the idea. If I have medical ‘professionals’ and teachers urging me that my games and fascinations could become a lifestyle, I would have chopped my hair off, drawn on a beard and named myself Jack. My parents instead were careful. They asked me what made a girl a girl and a boy a boy. I shrugged, and decided that boys were different because their toilets were. Everything else was up for grabs.
For some thirteen years before I realized my true purpose, including who my Savior is, I would gladly have changed my outward appearance to match the inner urinal user in myself. Who in my childish position would not?
I’ve grown into my body and faith now, and I know that I am a girl. I am a girl that likes to play rough and wear blue jeans. I am a girl that God created to get along with her many brothers and male cousins. I am a girl that God knew would need to be tougher then a pink and tu-tued princess. I am the same girl that I was when I was four, but with an identity. And not just a ‘gender identity’, but an identity with my soul, body, and Lord. And hey, that’s good enough for me.
(And oh, by the way, commenter above me, ALL fetuses start out female before the Y chromosome kicks in. That’s why men have nipples. And you say you did your research.)
Except the bible is a work of fiction. I like how you believe that being trans is a disorder of reality and believing in some crazy stories is not. If god created us who created god? Believing in a god does not make you a more moral person. Morality should not be judged by a book. If this was the case we would still have slaves, women couldn’t teach and would still be property of their husband or father. The earths distance can be measured from stars in the sky by using the measurement of light. If the earth was actually created 6,000 years ago we wouldn’t be able to see many of the stars in the sky. Go ahead and read the OT and NT. That is how I and many other religious leaders have lost their belief in the bible. If you can’t stand for it all you can’t stand for any of it. If you say you are a Christian, then I will assume you are a subservient woman that supports slavery and all the other terrible things written in the bible. There is a huge list. Look it up. It is what you stand for. The best way to turn people to a secular life is by asking them to actually sit down and read the bible.
Spencer Overlord Lee And what's that societal construct of a girl? To wear dresses? Bear children? Etc etc. As Mr. Walsh stated in the article, last I knew it was the progressive thing to state that things like that didn't define gender. Let's take my fiancee for example. Her mom tried pushing her into ballet and cheerleading when she was young because that's what her mom had done. However, she hated it. She refused. She hated wearing pink and dresses. Instead she wanted to go play soccer, and baseball/softball and whatever other sports that involved a ball that she could play in. She wanted to wear shorts and tshirts, sweatpants and sweatshirts. According to your "societal construct" definition of gender she is/was a boy. Guess what happened next, her parents encouraged her to play sports, wear what she wanted, and yet still taught her that she was a girl. That meant that when she grew up she had the option of having children (if she wanted). That was about the only difference between being a boy and being a girl. When you truly boil it down, that's the difference. Do you have the physical equipment to give birth to a child? Yes? Than you're a girl. No? Than you're a guy.
And don't use the tired "if you haven't studied it" bullcrap. I have studied it. I took a class on it. I've heard/read all of the sociological and psychological literature on the subject. I still think it's a load of crap. The reason why is pretty simple and something that I've actually heard liberals tout on different matters in the past, just because science says something is one way now doesn't mean that it will say the same thing tomorrow. Remember, people used to argue for slavery via scientific "proofs" that African Americans couldn't reason at the same level as whites. Based on your arguments, those who argued using the common sense observation that people are people and skin color has nothing to do with intelligence were wrong and should have been shouted down and shamed because the disagreed with "science".
Spencer Overlord Lee And what's that societal construct of a girl? To wear dresses? Bear children? Etc etc. As Mr. Walsh stated in the article, last I knew it was the progressive thing to state that things like that didn't define gender. Let's take my fiancee for example. Her mom tried pushing her into ballet and cheerleading when she was young because that's what her mom had done. However, she hated it. She refused. She hated wearing pink and dresses. Instead she wanted to go play soccer, and baseball/softball and whatever other sports that involved a ball that she could play in. She wanted to wear shorts and tshirts, sweatpants and sweatshirts. According to your "societal construct" definition of gender she is/was a boy. Guess what happened next, her parents encouraged her to play sports, wear what she wanted, and yet still taught her that she was a girl. That meant that when she grew up she had the option of having children (if she wanted). That was about the only difference between being a boy and being a girl. When you truly boil it down, that's the difference. Do you have the physical equipment to give birth to a child? Yes? Than you're a girl. No? Than you're a guy.
And don't use the tired "if you haven't studied it" bullcrap. I have studied it. I took a class on it. I've heard/read all of the sociological and psychological literature on the subject. I still think it's a load of crap. The reason why is pretty simple and something that I've actually heard liberals tout on different matters in the past, just because science says something is one way now doesn't mean that it will say the same thing tomorrow. Remember, people used to argue for slavery via scientific "proofs" that African Americans couldn't reason at the same level as whites. Based on your arguments, those who argued using the common sense observation that people are people and skin color has nothing to do with intelligence were wrong and should have been shouted down and shamed because the disagreed with "science".
Matt Mueller no, actually what I'm saying is that gender is non-binary. While maybe your fiancee wasn't traditionally "girly" if she identifies as female, she still is female. Nice try.
Matt Mueller no, actually what I'm saying is that gender is non-binary. While maybe your fiancee wasn't traditionally "girly" if she identifies as female, she still is female. Nice try.
Dana Crawford Well except you know the guy who "proved" that forced the identity of girl on a boy and mutilated his penis and then molested him, oh and he grew up and identified as a boy and decided to kill himself because of all of that shit, yep progressives at work
Well except you know the guy who "proved" that forced the identity of girl on a boy and mutilated his penis and then molested him, oh and he grew up and identified as a boy and decided to kill himself because of all of that shit, yep progressives at work
Well except you know the guy who "proved" that forced the identity of girl on a boy and mutilated his penis and then molested him, oh and he grew up and identified as a boy and decided to kill himself because of all of that shit, yep progressives at work
Bishop Six You mean David Reiner? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make exactly as your sentence is quite garbled. His case certainly proves that you can't force a gender on someone they don't identify with, and that people's brains come pre-programmed with a gender identity. I'm not sure why you think it's an example of "progressives at work" since progressives are all about letting people be who they want to be. Progressives wouldn't force an identity on someone, they let people pick their own identity.
Dana Crawford Oh, yes I'm quite certain indeed. Does that mean I can go about my business now in blackface if I feel black on the inside?
Dana Crawford Oh, yes I'm quite certain indeed. Does that mean I can go about my business now in blackface if I feel black on the inside?
Bishop Six You can be an idiot all you like.
Dana Crawford I would think the people purposely raising their kids to be dysfunctional would qualify as that
That guy was raised as a girl after a medical accident. It goes to show (and used in arguments for) that gender isn't a nurturable trait. You cannot change it. If a little boy says he is a she trying to erase that will lead to the suicide. Please do a little more thinking and researching before posting about shit you don't understand.
@ Keith Keane
“That guy was raised as a girl after a medical accident. It goes to show (and used in arguments for) that gender isn’t a nurturable trait. You cannot change it. If a little boy says he is a she trying to erase that will lead to the suicide. Please do a little more thinking and researching before posting about shit you don’t understand.”
Your comment makes no sense.
David Reimer’s tragic story demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that no amount of wishing or feeling or even bodily mutilation can make a male into a female or vice versa. One is male or female according to DNA. No amount of wishing or feeling or even mutilation can change that biological fact.
And yet those who promote the idea of “transgender” somehow use Reimer’s story as example FOR their cause, not against it. I was stunned when I began seeing that. When I read the book, I was sure that would put the issue to rest. (Silly me!)
So… I am not sure why you’re swearing and insulting people, or even what you’re trying to say.
The transgender crowd used David’s story as an example because it shows that the brain comes pre-programmed with gender. How else would he have known there was something wrong with him, since all he ever saw were female genitals and all he was ever told was that he was a girl? He knew it was wrong because his brain was born knowing his gender. Unfortunately for people who are transgender, this innate gender programming is incorrect according to sex and body type.
David’s case also demonstrates the kind of harm that happens when you force someone to live a life they are not comfortable with. Unlike someone who is transgender and makes a choice to transition, David had the whole situation forced on him. It was not a choice he made. The outcome of his situation is exactly what people who transition are trying to avoid – the severe depression and suicide caused by being forced to behave in a manner that is incredibly distressing.
And sure, his case shows that nothing you do can change a persons sex – but since no one on the planet is arguing otherwise the only reason for you to bring it up is as a strawman. No one thinks wishing or feeling can change DNA . So yeah, silly you!
Bishop Six Good thing that's not what is happening in this case.
And no child has been ever used as a guanapig to proof a theory that's what's happening to this child so sad Matt is right
Transgender is Not a parenting style read the article before. You comment two different subjects
Keith Keane Oh, yes so next time a child says he's an indian, or a cowboy, or a bank robber, or a car, you just go right on and let them be trans-racial, or trans-inanimateobject, you know it's just bigoted people like you denying them that and ruining children by impressing on them that they aren't actually a car when you know that they are
Bishop Six If a child seriously thinks they are a car, you take them to a medical professional and hopefully follow that professionals advice for treatment. That is exactly what these parents did.
Bishop, thst reply makes no sense whatsoever.
Kym, these parents realized that every child is different and a different approach to raising their child was necessary. That is what this bloggers earlier article (the one i linked). This article states that the child should not be raised by a different method and raised like all other children. He is contradicting himself.
Psychologists advise that we raise trans kids in the gender they feel comfortable with. I will take their position over any "parents" because i know how it can fuck with your child's life if they grow up hating themselves.
Maybe it's time you mind your business. You're Matt Walsh, blogger. Not Dr. Walsh of Psychology. Stick to what you know, which is stirring a shitpot with your Bible.
I'm sure you and your wife (or life partner) are very happy together.
Scott Callihan Since the parents way of thinking is that they shouldn't force an identity on their child that would cause a high level of distress I'm sure the level of understanding would be the same.
Except that "gender" is based on "sex" which IS a biological construct, yet even THAT is not truly binary (but it IS digital; a trinary to be truthful; mane/female/HERMAPHRODITE) and determined by often one pair of chromosomes of similar construction (while some animals or plants have more; eg the platypus has five pairs.) Also of note is that you've basically added to Feminism's admißion of intent specifically in implementing cis-female supremacy.
Spencer Overlord Lee No wonder thence, why Feminists specifically want a system of cis-female supremacy!
Bill N Jessica Fahy , It is no longer classified as a disorder, actually, in the new DSM. It USED to be classified as Gender Identity Disorder, now it is Gender Dysphoria, the treatment of which is listed as transition. Meaning, the American Psychiatric Association agrees that the best treatment for individuals suffering from Gender Dysphoria is to allow transition to the gender the person identifies as. We've learned that to take any other approach leads to unacceptably high suicide rates.
You call THIS child abuse… do you realize that almost half of transgender youth try to commit suicide due to non-acceptance and non-support from their family? It's abuse to try to force a child to live in a gender that does not match their brain, to force a child to choose between living a miserable, unhappy life as someone they're not or to kill themselves! THAT is what is abusive. Allowing a child to live in a way that allows them to be a happy, confident, LOVED and accepted person is NOT abuse.
You call THIS child abuse… do you realize that almost half of transgender youth try to commit suicide due to non-acceptance and non-support from their family? It's abuse to try to force a child to live in a gender that does not match their brain, to force a child to choose between living a miserable, unhappy life as someone they're not or to kill themselves! THAT is what is abusive. Allowing a child to live in a way that allows them to be a happy, confident, LOVED and accepted person is NOT abuse.
Jamie Douglas it's not the gender that's the problem, it's the fact that genders are treated differently by society. If everyone was equally accepted for the individual person that they are, regardless of gender, then it wouldn't be a problem.
Fucking idiots all over the comment section clearly misconstrued the article because they are too stupid with their gnat-IQs to comprehend any logical sense and reality. Gender and biological sex go hand in hand, dumbasses. Why do you think masculin behavior is associated with the male species, retards??? How hard is this to grasp??? To think that you can be the opposite sex with surgery and hormone injections is just as stupid to believe you've just grown inches taller because you stood on a chair. You're too delusional to see you're delusional. If gender does not equal your physical sex then why does when a faggot wants to wear dresses and change his name to Michelle and chop his dick and balls of is accepted as a woman stuck in a man's body? Because you morons the gender he is impersonating belongs to the female species. Saying that gender is not the same as your physical sex is like saying that wetness does not belong to water, when wetness is a natural characteristic of water, just like femininity is a characteristic of women. Gender roles are behavioral manifestations of the gender that it is proportional to; just because a faggot wants to wear a dress does not make him a woman. And just because a dyke wants to wear a dildo does not make her a man. You can imagine being something all you want that does not make you what you are imagining. So if I want to imagine I am not human and pretend to be a lion and put on a lion costume, does that make me a lion? Geez wake the fuck up people and lay off whatever drugs you're doing. The stupidity and insanity on this planet is astounding.
Yasmine, if you could bring yourself to post without using foul language or spewing insults, it would help your point. If you could actually make a sensible point instead of complaining about what people wear or what sex aids they use, it would help even more.
you sir, are an idiot.
@ George Bell
“you sir, are an idiot.”
At least he know how to capitalize the first word in a sentence.
Now, anything to say on the topic? Or just more childish, illiterate insults?
Oh my actual days!
Right, let me get this clear. Their 5 year old is communicating to them that they are a boy, and they are letting this child behave as such? Well that's just disgusting. What happens if when they are 7 they want be identified as a girl? What will they do then. It's not like they could let the child identify as girl from that point… Oh wait… they could. What they are doing is being good parents. They are not doing anything permanent, and they are not forcing anything on the poor kid, they are simply letting him do what makes him happy. Fuck me that is some radical thinking right there. Society as we know it will collapse.
Oh and for the record I knew I was a girl from the age of 4, then spent 18 miserable years trying to figure out what to do about it.
OH OH, and also, how the hell does it effect any of you people anyway?
Whatever, I'm done with the internet, it obvious humanity isn't ready for it…
Oh my actual days!
Right, let me get this clear. Their 5 year old is communicating to them that they are a boy, and they are letting this child behave as such? Well that’s just disgusting. What happens if when they are 7 they want be identified as a girl? What will they do then. It’s not like they could let the child identify as girl from that point… Oh wait… they could. What they are doing is being good parents. They are not doing anything permanent, and they are not forcing anything on the poor kid, they are simply letting him do what makes him happy. Fuck me that is some radical thinking right there. Society as we know it will collapse.
Oh and for the record I knew I was a girl from the age of 4, then spent 18 miserable years trying to figure out what to do about it.
OH OH, and also, how the hell does it effect any of you people anyway?
Whatever, I’m done with the internet, it obvious humanity isn’t ready for it…
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i have never seen a wonderful Doctor like Doctor Atete. He is a man of his word and the solution of all kind of problems, i call him the physical God on earth because of what he has done for me with his powerful spell. I was married for seventeen years without any child but when i contacted Doctor Atete for help,he promised me that all will be well with me and my wife then he cast a spell for me and i am so please to tell the world that my wife got pregnant after sex and today she gave birth to triplet. What else can i say than to say thank you to Doctor Atete the man that has wipe my tears.D o you need help then Contact Doctor Atete today via mail: doctoratetespelltemple@hotmail.com or via website http://drzazazworldofpowerfulspellwebscom.webs.com or Phone: +2347056505954
[…] This Poor Child is Confused, Not “Transgendered” […]
Read the article by someone who has actually studied this as psychiatrist-in-chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital. He say in the close “We have wasted scientific and technical resources and damaged our professional credibility by collaborating with madness rather than trying to study, cure, and ultimately prevent it.” http://www.firstthings.com/article/2004/11/surgical-sex
Oops, that was supposed to be a reply to Justin above – I’m not sure how that happened.
There is no point in trying to have a discussion with bible thumping creationists. What they believe is true and right. Whether or not something has been proved or disproved by science doesn’t matter because it is not what they believe. I love that beliefs are argued against facts and science.
@ Blahblahblah
(Your screen name suits you perfectly!)
“There is no point in trying to have a discussion with bible thumping creationists.
Learn how to capitalize the word Bible. It’s a proper noun. Just because you are an anti-Christian bigot doesn’t give you the right to change grammar rules. Got it? Your hatred of the Bible doesn’t change reality any more than imagining or wishing to be the opposite sex makes you into it. Got that? Good.
Now, show me where anyone’s mentioning creationism.
Show it to me.
This post is about the delusion of transgender, and the child abuse being inflicted on this child.
Address it.
The rest of your blah, blah, blah, I did not read.
@Blahblahblah
“There is no point in trying to have a discussion with bible thumping creationists. What they believe is true and right.”
The irony here is that you think what you believe is just as right and true as those pesky “bible thumping creationists” you seem to dislike so much.
That’s pretty funny.
What facts and science disprove the existence of God?
Eveloution has not been proven by science. It is a theory. Big bang is contradictory to CHAOS. It takes more faith not to believe in the Bible than to believe in it.
Facts are interpreted by minds with presuppositions. Science is not objective since it is the subject that interprets the “facts,” and if these facts are interpreted by the majority of people, they will assume it is correct. In your assessment of “facts,” you have not provided a base by which they can be interpreted objectively. Please do some studying before you comment.
Science isn’t always fact. Often it is, but not everything is proven. A lot of things in science are theories and haven’t been proven yet. We haven’t discovered everything yet. Nor can we claim that we know everything because of science. There are many things we don’t understand yet. When the answers aren’t there (even though someone thinks there are) there is a God who can give us the answers. It isn’t God vs science. It is God helping us to understand His science. He made us. He know how we work and he can tell us about it. He has and he still does. This goes beyond just belief. He speaks through the Bible. And He speaks through His modern authorized spokesmen too. I recommend you take a look at the following proclamation issued by a modern prophet and modern 12 apostles about the family, sex, and gender issues. It is God’s word and warning revealed in our day. This isn’t ancient stuff. It’s worth taking a look if you’re curious: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1995/10/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world?lang=eng
I just want to apologize on behalf of those “Bible thumping Creationists”. Don’t let those people who can not articulate their thoughts in a conscious, respectful manner, ruin your view on Christianity. They are not the majority and they are not representing Christ well. With that being said, they are imperfect just like everyone else-including myself. As far as my opinion goes, I’ve seem this video and read this article and I still haven’t come to a conclusion. And that’s okay, but whatever my thoughts are on this, are my thoughts and I don’t need to plaster them online for these parents to read and get worked up about. This is their life, not mine, so I will not impose my beliefs on their decisions. I mean come on, what good is the opinion of a girl from West Michigan going to do for this family besides make them feel judged and self-conscious.
its this notion of transgenderism that is against biological facts and science.by the way i am not religious.
And science says there are two sexed, determined by chromosomes.
I thought that science would say that a dog born with testicles was a male dog. Does this same science you refer to apply to humans? If it does, then the fact that I have a penis would indicate that I am indeed a male. If this is true, does this same science apply to Ryland? My 4 year old son (who has a penis) is constantly telling me he is “Red Iron Man.” Should I then indulge him with promiscuous women and let him try to fly and shoot big lasers with his hands? So, to what facts and science are you referring?
Anyone who is truly a member of the scientific community and studies a discipline of science professionally will recognize that we actually DON’T know everything and that we learn new things every day. Science does not prove or disprove anything, there are only theories and laws, the latter of which is the most solid ground you can get on in science. Please use common sense.
You’ve confused me. Where is there any statement from “Bible thumping creationists”? I believe in the Bible. I also believe in science.
When it comes to transgender issues – DNA is DNA. Period. No amount of surgery will change that. It has nothing to do with Biblical beliefs.
@Blahblahblah
Yes, please, let’s use facts proven by science.
Currently we are letting people with male DNA and male bodies get talked by liberals into having a sex change because they have a mental condidtion. We are letting people with female DNA and female bodies get talked by liberals into having a sex change because they have a mental condition.
Please, use science. Treat people with mental conditions for mental conditions, and treat people with DNA/gender differences with sex changes.
That is exactly what us “Bible-thumpers” are asking for in fact. We want you to use science, instead of beliefs. If science says they are a female, don’t let their belief that they are a male allow them to get a sex change.
Science hasn’t disproved anything in the Bible. Science and the Bible work together to explain things. You have a too narrow and suffocating definition of ‘creationists’. The merging and dominant belief amongst believers who observe this issue hold to an old earth creationist theory. Namely, the Creation account in Genesis and other passages is not describing a 6 days and young earth scenario.
It appears the earth was created a long time ago. It wasn’t until about 10 thousand years
ago that Adam was put on the earth. It also explains why evolution can’t explain the sudden emergence of humankind.
Not everyone who believes there is a God or that there is a natural law is a Bible thumping creationist. Take a look at who first conceived the “Big Bang” theory and comment when you have something positive and/or helpful to say.
Science isn’t infallible. It never has been. What is considered a fact today may not be fact tomorrow as soon as some other genius disproves it. The earth isn’t flat, and it’s also not the center of the universe. Pluto is a planet, wait, no it’s not, and carbon dating has been going to way of the dodo because of its inaccurate nature. Sure, creationists are stubborn, and we always will be. That’s what faith IS. The “substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” I find it absurd that people think it’s crazier to believe in creation than in the tiniest percent of chance that the cosmos somehow developed our beautiful earth and everything on it. That’s like throwing building supplies into the air and believing that it will come down as a completed house. It takes more faith to believe in that than in a Creator.
thanks for the grammar lesson! guess i got a terrible education! i don’t have to capitalize words if i don’t want to, just like you don’t have to believe that what these parents did was right. you attack every single person in this discussion who does not say something that you agree with or believe in. you have not given one statement of fact. just your beliefs. your beliefs are not fact. nor have they been proven. everyone is wrong and sick and insane if they do not follow your beliefs. OK.
Well, if you want to pick nits regarding grammar, the word bible is not a proper noun. There is a book called Holy Bible, and yes, the word is capitalized in that context, but it is capitalized because it is in a title – the same reason the word holy is capitalized.
Your referring to transgender as ‘delusion’ and these parents as abusive is also erroneous, but it’s not worth the effort of arguing.
@Mo (short for homo?),
The word bible should not be capitalized, for your information. And just because someone thinks your line of reasoning is idiotic does not make them anti-Christian or a bigot. I am a Christian, but I believe in science. If you’re too dumb to understand that, well, there’s no use trying to get through. *sigh*
You obviously need to brush up on your gramma rules, as well as your perception of reality. The fact that you say Transgenderism is a delusion is outrageous. Tell that to a transgendered person and let me watch while they beat some sense into you. Child abuse? Really? Letting the child be happy in their situation is certainly not abusing a child. If Transgenderism wasn’t real, there wouldn’t be surgeries to remedy the problem, now would there? Pull your head out of your bottom and join the real world. Got that? Good.
Number 3 and number 4
Bi·ble [bahy-buhl] Show IPA
noun
1.
the collection of sacred writings of the Christian religion, comprising the Old and New Testaments.
2.
Also called Hebrew Scriptures. the collection of sacred writings of the Jewish religion: known to Christians as the Old Testament.
3.
( often lowercase ) the sacred writings of any religion.
4.
( lowercase ) any book, reference work, periodical, etc., accepted as authoritative, informative, or reliable: He regarded that particular bird book as the birdwatchers’ bible.
@ michael jackson
“fhanks for the grammar lesson! guess i got a terrible education!
Now that is hilarious! You clearly did get a terrible education, since you don’t capitalize the first letter in a sentence or the proper pronoun “I”.
“i don’t have to capitalize words if i don’t want to, …”
Spoken like a true 8 year old! I can almost hear the stomping of the feet and see the pout.
Behold, the mentality of our culture.You don’t feel like capitalizing, so you think the rules of grammar can be thrown out just for you.
Thanks so much for such a wonderful example!
“just like you don’t have to believe that what these parents did was right.”
Believing or not believing something doesn’t make it true or false.
Believing you’re a boy when you’re a girl (or vice versa) doesn’t make it so. That’s fact. Deal with it.
” you attack every single person in this discussion who does not say something that you agree with or believe in. ”
Haha! No, that would be people like you. (I love the projection.)
Saying facts is now “attacking” – more insanity!
Now that we’re done with this nonsense, address the actual CONTENT of what I’ve said.
(Thanks again for demonstrating the utter silliness of our culture!)
That fact of whether you’re a boy or a girl has nothing to do with religious beliefs and everything to do with the science and facts that you seem to be so fond of. You can dress a kid up, tell them they are the opposite of what they are, give them hormones or plastic surgery and the fact is, they are still the same gender they were when they were born. Your sex is encoded into your DNA. That’s a SCIENTIFIC FACT. They can do what they want to this poor kid and she is still a girl.. Sorry.
You’re doing exactly what you accuse the “Bible Thumpers” of doing. “If I say it’s so, then it’s so…” That’s some weird kind of scientific facts you’ve been studying. Sounds more like fairy tales to me.
This kid is a TODDLER! Their imaginations are crazy! They change from one day to the next what they think they are. When my daughter was two, she was Thumbelina. She would not answer to anything BUT Thumbelina. I didn’t make her a boat out of a leaf or a bed out of a matchbox. Or try to find an incredible shrinking machine so she could LITERALLY BE Thumbelina! It’s called GROWING and LEARNING!
When I was little there was a time I wished I was a boy because all of my cousins and neighborhood playmates were boys and I wanted to be just like them. Trust me…it was PHASE. I definitely grew up all girl with no gender confusion whatsover.
These parents need to get a life and stop trying to get media attention using this innocent child. Maybe they should choose a hobby that keeps them from staring at and analyzing every nuance or childish comment their kid makes.
So, @Blahblahblah or @MichaelJackson or whoever you are. If you’re going to cite scientific fact, be scientific. Don’t try to use this subject to bash “Bible Thumpers” on their religious beliefs….it doesn’t hold water.
Matt’s opinion is not even a Christian response as much as it is common sense. And where is the “science” in the article? I don’t recall reading that this family had any testing done to even see if this child was genetically male or anything. The kid expressed normal kid sentiments and the parents buckled.
Science? You want SCIENCE? This little girl was born female. Fact.
“Saying facts is now “attacking” – more insanity!
Now that we’re done with this nonsense, address the actual CONTENT of what I’ve said.”
You don’t state fact and you can’t back up what you say about this situation, the science behind transgender issues, or your ideas regarding child development.
You almost NEVER deal with real content, you RUN from it.
Watch out kids the grammar police is out on patrol! Yes I am stomping my feet like a child bc I am stating it’s my choice as to whether or not I want to capitalize words.
@ Crazy insane left wing liberal
(Glad your name suits you!)
“Yes I am stomping my feet like a child bc I am stating it’s my choice as to whether or not I want to capitalize words.”
Yep. Because in the minds of leftists, rules don’t matter. Not even grammar rules. Whatever they think is ‘true” for them, magically is.
Pure insanity.
“Yep. Because in the minds of leftists, rules don’t matter. Not even grammar rules. Whatever they think is ‘true” for them, magically is.”
You confuse a deviation from your rules with a lack of rules all together. It’s not the same thing.
SUSAN-
Do you honestly think these parents would push their child to live as a boy for attention? I watched their video on youtube and obviously it is a mere, short glimpse into these people’s lives. They do however come off as loving, attentive parents who want their child to be happy who can live life feeling good about himself and without shame. Depression and suicide are extremely common issues with transgender people and I think that any parent would do whatever they could to help their child avoid these things.
It sounds like you don’t believe gender dysphoria is valid or real. I know from personal experience with transgender individuals that it is a real thing and most of these people knew from a very young age that they felt like they were born as the wrong gender. For a moment please think about how that would feel.
So if people know this from a very young age, what age is it right to transition to the opposite gender? How much of your life should be wasted miserable, depressed, ashamed or suicidal? Nothing Ryland has done is permanent. If he changes his mind, which I doubt he will do, he can live as a girl. They aren’t giving him hormones. They cut his hair and gave him boy clothes and redecorated his room.
You’re obviously not getting the difference between sex and gender, so here you go:
“Although the words gender and sex both have the sense ‘the state of being male or female,’ they are typically used in slightly different ways: sex tends to refer to biological differences, while gender refers to cultural or social ones.”
That’s from the Oxford dictionary.
On what planet is a 5 year old a toddler? A 5 year old is in kindergarten. Not only is he not a toddler, he’s not even a preschooler.
Thank you, Susan, for putting what I wanted to say into words. I was having a difficult time overcoming my incredulity over some of the, frankly ridiculous, things people have been saying. You have probably received some opposition and criticism on your position in the debate, but I fully approve of your statement. You said exactly what I wanted to say with more comprehension than I would have been able to manage.
Bravo.
the child’s was born with female gonads. Whether or not the child was born with a female brain remains to be seen but it would appear not. And yes, scientifically speaking, that may have happened. Would you like to know more?
Sex, gender, and sexuality are all different things people like to group together.
Sex is biological, therefore a female has a vagina, and a male has a penis.
Gender is how someone perceives them self to be. How they identify their own gender. Therefore, a biological male can define his gender as female, and a biological female can define herself sex as male. You can also define yourself as having no gender. Gender is a social construction, people typically combine what you’re biologically with how you should act, think, like, etc. But gender is based from person to person and anyone can be any gender they want based on their own decision.
Lastly, sexuality is basically who you are attracted to. Therefore a biological female can define their gender female and they can like boys. Or a biological female can define their gender as male and they can like girls. The possibilities are endless.
Society has been conditioned to group together sex and gender. If you’re a biological female then your gender is female… But that is not the case at all.
Now obviously people will not agree with what I have said here and that is fine, everyone has their own ideas. I am a 20 year old who has grown up in different times and my generation and people younger than me have been raised in a society that is more open minded about how people chose to act, who they chose to love, and what gender they want to be. But, I am also a sociology major..and all classes on gender I’ve taken at college level have taught me that sex and gender are two different things.
My brother is two years younger than I and in his grade there is a biological boy named billy who from a very very young age (around first grade) came in dressing like a girl everyday, now the school told him he wasn’t a girl and so did kids, but billy continued to dress like a girl and as billy got older he started to define his gender as a girl. Billy who stills goes by that name is graduating high school this year, has long hair, wears make up, and like boys, and still identifies as a girl as she has from age 5-6.The school system and other parents used to bash billies parents and call them wrong and so many other names, but they were just letting billy do what she wanted. Now for the most part all kids around billies age, and parents are not very accepting of billy. It only takes one person to change your mind on a social construction that has been around for years.
Girls are not always born female.
@ Ivybug
“You confuse a deviation from your rules with a lack of rules all together. It’s not the same thing.”
I invented grammar rules?
I invented biological reality?
Please stop wasting my time. You make zero sense. I wonder if you really are a kid. There’s no way an adult can be saying such silly things.
“I invented grammar rules?
I invented biological reality?
Please stop wasting my time. You make zero sense. I wonder if you really are a kid. There’s no way an adult can be saying such silly things.”
Who said anything about inventing? Where do you get this stuff?
You said leftists don’t think rules matter. I pointed out that disregarding one rule doesn’t mean someone thinks it’s ok to disregard all rules.
@ AKA The BeerLady
“Your referring to transgender as ‘delusion’ and these parents as abusive is also erroneous, but it’s not worth the effort of arguing.”
So a point on grammar is worth arguing, but the far more serious point of the blog post itself is not.
Remarkable.
I do believe that Bible, when used in the phrase Bible-thumping creationist, should be capped because the Bible in question is The Holy Bible, not a backpacker’s bible or …well here, this link explains it: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bible
“So a point on grammar is worth arguing, but the far more serious point of the blog post itself is not.
Remarkable.”
You have spent a remarkable amount of time diverting discussion from the point of the blog to discussions of grammar, pronouns, and people’s level of manners.
You have done almost nothing to address discussions related to the actual blog topic, and generally runs from anyone who attempts serious dialog that you can’t turn into a discussion about something like grammar.
@ Ivybug
Good grief, I wasn’t even talking to you this time!
Go bother someone else already!
“Good grief, I wasn’t even talking to you this time!
Go bother someone else already!”
You respond to almost everyone who posts here, most of whom are not talking to you. You mostly concentrate on insulting people, whereas I’m more interested in highlighting your hypocrisy and holding you to the same standards you try to hold other people to, and countering misinformation.
Misery, shame, depression and suicide are not cured by gender reassignment. In fact, going through gender reassignment has very little effect (read that again if you like) on the mental health of “transsexuals”. That’s because their problem is not that they are simply born with the “wrong” sex organs. It’s because they are mentally ill and the medical profession (and now society) is telling them they are normal instead of developing real treatments.
Letting a child pretend to be to opposite sex may make them feel happier while they are young, but doing nothing else to treat the gender disphoria will guarantee their further decline in mental health as they age. And will Ryland get to live as a girl when she is older, if she wants? Not if her parents start hormone therapy before puberty as has been discussed. And not, perhaps, if other cases are any cue. Josie Romero (waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/2013/10/transgender-kids-perhaps-its-all-moms-idea.html) and Nancy Verhelst (waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/2013/10/in-belgium-the-girl-her-mother-never-wanted-is-put-to-death.html).
Jason I think you have asked the right question – which is “if you are transgender, what age can you declare or be sure of it, or have it recognised?” so that pain and depression and possibly suicide is avoided – the problem is that it is a really difficult question to answer. I have three young kids of my own and a bunch (7) of younger siblings and I work with little kids so I feel I have a pretty good idea what toddlers and little kids are like and how they think and I have to agree with Matt and many others who have replied to this blog, in saying that a toddler is too young to make this decision because they can’t answer the question what IS a boy or a girl. They are just too young and simple minded to understand what the difference is and adults indulging these confused ideas will make life very confusing for these little people when they do get old enough to properly consider these things. Tricky stuff.
They did/are doing more than that, Jason. They are calling her a him, they paraded her before a crowd of happy people who celebrated her being a him and they made a video tape and taught her to say, “I am a transgendered boy.” And that has put tremendous pressure on this poor little girl who should have been allowed to just be a little girl who liked to pretend she was a boy.
So I do have a question now – what is the definition of a boy and what is the definition of a girl? What makes a boy a boy, and what makes a girl, a girl? Can you answer that for me in a clear, concise way? Thank you
So, I should be inclined to believe the leader of a church who claims to communicate with God, but far be it from those agreeing with the article to actually study the work of people who have studied these very real issues for years? Scientists, psychologists and the like have expertise on this issue while anyone claiming to be a prophet or apostle are simply using their position in a human-made institution to spread the same beliefs any closed-minded individual can muster. If I am conflicted about the truth of prophets in general, how could I ever subscribe to the words of a figurehead spewing nonsense?
You do not understand science. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method, and repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation.
Amen, hallelujah,
@ Krystal
“You’re obviously not getting the difference between sex and gender, so here you go:
“Although the words gender and sex both have the sense ‘the state of being male or female,’ they are typically used in slightly different ways: sex tends to refer to biological differences, while gender refers to cultural or social ones.”
That’s from the Oxford dictionary.”
But that’s not how it’s used when it comes to this issue. When it comes to this issue, “gender” seems to mean whatever the user wants it to mean.
There’s a world of difference between saying “this is a girl who prefers pants over dresses” or “this is a boy who prefers pink over blue” and saying, “BECAUSE this girl prefers pants rather than dresses, this means she’s transgender” and “BECAUSE this boy prefers pink over blue, this means he’s transgender.”
But how do we go from a personal preference on arbitrary cultural/social things like clothing, hair and toys to saying that if the personal preferences don’t match what society (again arbitrarily) says are “girl things” or “boy things” this indicates a person is the opposite sex stuck in the wrong body? How does one lead to the other?
And if a child is saying, “I’m a boy” based only on these arbitrary things, it means nothing, because none of these things are what it actually means to be a boy! (But to a child, it may seem so because that’s all they can see and understand at that age.)
The whole thing is completely incoherent.
It’s not her gender she’s claiming to have changed it’s her sex. And if your sex can’t determine your gender, your gender also can’t determine your sex.
If gender refers to cultural or social differences, then how is gender hard-coded into the brain at birth? How do you even have a gender before you have been exposed to culture or society?
“But that’s not how it’s used when it comes to this issue. When it comes to this issue, “gender” seems to mean whatever the user wants it to mean.”
Nope, not true. We are using the two word exactly as they have been defined. You deny that definition altogether.
“But how do we go from a personal preference on arbitrary cultural/social things like clothing, hair and toys to saying that if the personal preferences don’t match what society (again arbitrarily) says are “girl things” or “boy things” this indicates a person is the opposite sex stuck in the wrong body? How does one lead to the other?”
One doesn’t lead to the other, and no one you are arguing ever claimed it did. We have been telling you over and over again that’s not what we’re saying. No one decided this child was transgender because of his preferences in clothes and toys. HE declared, on his own, that he was a boy. No one told him that or taught him that. He was in fact, DISCOURAGED, from being a boy for two years, and never wavered from his assertion that he was a boy. THAT is why his doctors DIAGNOSED him as transgender.
It’s probably incoherent to you because you refuse to actually hear the argument people are making. You just make up your own nonsense to argue against that no one actually said.
Did you even watch the video this kid’s parents posted? You’re assuming that the only reason they declared their child transgender is because he started playing with toy cars instead of barbies when that is nowhere near what is going on. Anybody with a brain can understand that a girl liking soccer does not mean she’s a boy, and a boy loving barbies does not mean he’s a girl. I’m a girl that’s obsessed with the Avengers. Nobody has tried convincing me that I’m actually a boy. That’s ludicrous, and that’s not what is happening here. I do not get why people don’t understand that.
The video tells us that this child said things like “when the family dies, I will cut my hair so I can be a boy” and “why did god make me like this”. That does not equate to what you are saying. That the child just said “I wanna be a boy!” and the parents were like, “ok sure!” It’s not that hard to understand.
Adaman92,
“How could I ever subscribe to the words of a figurehead spewing nonsense?”
It is interesting to me that you say that and that you mention how “Scientists, psychologists and the like” have proper expertise on this issue when Pope Francis has three masters degrees one in philosophy, one in theology, and one in chemistry. And most of the Catholic Churches’ leaders have more than one degree, speak multiple languages, and have had physicists, psychologists, and many many others among their ranks.
I would say that anyone inclined to listen to what they have to say would be a very wise person indeed. It appears to me that if you think that people who do their research and know what they are talking about are such amazing sources then you need to look no further than what the Catholic Church and her Popes, Fathers, Apostles, Prophets, etc. have to say.
adaman92,
I believe Kate has adequately addressed most of your comment herself, but I would like to go a bit further.
First of all, at this point, scientists and psychologists have nothing to do with. It is a proven, scientific fact that children that age are not mature enough to make their own decisions regarding serious issues. Someone already pointed it out, but I’ll reiterate, this is why 5-year-olds aren’t allowed to vote, or get a job, or go into R-Rated movies. They can’t make rational decisions. It’s SCIENTIFICALLY proven that their brains haven’t fully matured, and won’t until around the age of 25. You’re deemed old enough to drink at 18 because it should be developed enough for awareness of getting drunk, etc.
5 is a long ways from both 25 and 18 and is hardly old enough to decide whether you are a boy or girl. She may act like a boy, but this is where the term tomboy comes from. A girl who acts like a boy, preferring boy clothes, etc. It’s hardly a new situation and it DOES NOT mean that she would prefer being a boy.
Her parents seemed to have interpreted it that way, however, and turned her into some poster child for transgender issues. At 5. Now this poor child will grow up believing that she is destined to be a boy, whether or not she changes her mind later on, because she is being pressured in that direction.
It sounds familiar, doesn’t it? It’s the same problem a lot of people claim the children of Christians will have. Being pressured to hide some part of themselves due to their parents and so-called socially acceptable ‘regulations.’
The Holy Bible does say, basically, that you shouldn’t permanently alter yourself and that man shouldn’t lie with man, and things of similar ilk.
I believe that. I also believe that it talks about acceptance and to treat others as you wish to be treated. I believe that too. It says to share your own beliefs with others, but it makes no mention of shoving it down their throats.
Whether or not you believe it, I’ll accept that. You have shared your opinion. I’ll share mine. No shoving needed from either direction. It’s mutually accepted that we can have our own opinions.
…I also believe I have gone on far too long a rant and end it here. I got a bit carried away. Sorry.
@ Calicai
“You obviously need to brush up on your gramma rules, as well as your perception of reality. ”
My reality is fine. Those who think they are the opposite sex than what biology says are the ones with the problem.
“The fact that you say Transgenderism is a delusion is outrageous. Tell that to a transgendered person and let me watch while they beat some sense into you. ”
Is that a threat?
“Child abuse? Really? Letting the child be happy in their situation is certainly not abusing a child.”
Yeah, because good parenting is letting a kid do whatever they please, as long as it makes them “happy” right? So if that means letting them play in traffic, we should let them. Right?
” If Transgenderism wasn’t real, there wouldn’t be surgeries to remedy the problem, now would there?”
Oh, so now you’re ADMITTING someone who thinks they are the opposite sex has a problem? THANK YOU!
(Incoherent, much?)
“Pull your head out of your bottom and join the real world. Got that? Good.”
Spare me your childish and vulgar insults and address the issue.
“If Transgenderism wasn’t real, there wouldn’t be surgeries to remedy the problem, now would there?” Wow. You really need to take course in logic, man. This makes no sense.
“Yeah, because good parenting is letting a kid do whatever they please, as long as it makes them “happy” right? So if that means letting them play in traffic, we should let them. Right?”
No, good parenting mean raising your child in a way that reduces their risk of depression and suicide. Just like Ryland’s parents are doing.
“Oh, so now you’re ADMITTING someone who thinks they are the opposite sex has a problem? THANK YOU!”
When did anyone here DENY that? We’ve been telling you, over and over, that these people have a problem with their brains not having developed properly in line with their bodies. Are you ready to admit that transgender people have a real problem based in their biology?
When are you going to address the issues the way you keep demanding everyone else do? You respond to everyone else demanding they address things that you yourself never address. It’s an amazing amount of hypocrisy. There are several direct questions that have been put to you and ignored.
@ Courtney
“I just want to apologize on behalf of those “Bible thumping Creationists”.
Looks like you’re mistakenly posting on the wrong blog. Show me where anyone here is talking about Creationism, which is about the age of the earth and the creation of the universe?
“Don’t let those people who can not articulate their thoughts in a conscious, respectful manner, ruin your view on Christianity.”
Which people? Which poorly articulated thoughts? Point them out to me.
What do you mean by Christianity?
Any answers to these questions?
THANK YOU. My thoughts exactly. I don’t quite know where I stand either. I’m not sure whether the parents went too far in encouraging their child to express herself, or if she truly feels like a boy at her young age. However, I don’t think they deserve to be scolded like children themselves. Let’s all talk about this with kindness for the parents, and especially Ryland.
“I mean come on, what good is the opinion of a girl from West Michigan going to do for this family besides make them feel judged and self-conscious.”
Yes, this exactly. Bless you.
Thank you for this reply. My wish is more people could feel this way. It would make the world a much better place
“Any answers to these questions?”
When are you going to address the myriad of questions that have been put to you? Why should anyone feel obligated to answer you?
She was talking about people probably very much like yourself. I used to be a Christian- it was attitudes like yours that made me begin the process of deconstructing my judgmental beliefs.
Listen to what I’m about to say, and think about it thoroughly. If your goal is to bring more people to Christ (whom I no longer believe in), it is practical and effective for you to be as empathetic and nonjudgmental as possible. Blame no one. Accept everyone. That is the message of Christianity, of Christ. Judge no one, lest you be judged. Be kind. Channel your anger into effective healing for those you care about.
I am so thankful for people like Courtney- I do not think that religion is necessarily a force for harm, though it’s tendency to pit groups of people against other groups does cause untold pain to billions. Christians who are empathetic and understanding, like Courtney, will bring people to your cause. What you are doing will not. I hope you don’t see this as a judgment of you- I mean only to educate you and to help you. Most atheists will sit quietly by and let you destroy religion from the inside out- it’s what we want. The evidence that the way you speak to others is ineffective is typing to you right now. Me and millions of others who were tired of being blamed and judged. Judge no one, lest you be judged.
Animals that have evolved:
Peppered Moth, their coloring has changed to match the environment
Three-toed Skinks has started giving live births over laying eggs
Crabs and Mussels have both been evolving to counter each other, stronger and stronger claws vs stronger and stronger shells
Italian Wall Lizards have vastly changed their diet from insect to vegetarian over the last 30 years.
Cane Toads have been getting larger and faster for years
Galapagos Island Finches, had beak beaks to break certain nuts, their environment was invaded by a superior bird so they developed smaller beaks to eat food that their competition ignored.
I agree with you that it takes more faith to no believe in the Bible, but not because you make crazy claims like evolution has not been proven.
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method, and repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation.
Good god. Please stop using “scientific theory” and the common use of the word “theory” as if they are interchangeable. They are not. Scientific theory is “a well substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world,” which means it’s based on observed evidence and experimentation. It’s pretty much as close to fact as you can get. “It takes more faith not to believe in the Bible than to believe in it” is also a theory. Just not a scientific one, which means it’s just nonsensical conjecture (aka…your opinion). I believe in God. I believe in the Bible. Just not the way I believe in science. It’s fact vs faith. They both have a place. Just stop confusing them.
Theory does not mean what you think it means. So much of science is theories that everyone else readily accepts. Plate tectonics are a theory. Heliocentrism is a theory. Also, learn how to spell.
Ryland’s transition started at the age of 2. I believe that 2 to about 4 is considered a toddler, so although the child was not declared a boy until after the toddler stage, many of the other things mentioned here were already appearing during that time.
This is hilarious. “Good parenting mean raising your child in a way that reduces their risk of depression and suicide. Just like Ryland’s parents are doing.”
Come on. They started cutting her hair and dressing like a boy when she was two years old. She didn’t make that decision. Yes, she wanted to wear jeans and play with trucks. That doesn’t mean that she wants to actually be a boy. There is no way that a two year old girl asked to become the face of the transgender movement. She was too young to comprehend what it even means to be transgendered.
I think that forcing a child into this overly-publicized situation may actually serve to increase her risk of depression down the road… but at least her attention-seeking parents can win some awards for being so “brave” in the meantime, right? You comment that “these people have a problem with their brains not having developed properly in line with their bodies.” That’s such a nice assumption to make about a LITTLE GIRL. Yes, I’m sure she will thank her parents for this in fifteen years.
@ Ivybug,
“No, good parenting mean raising your child in a way that reduces their risk of depression and suicide. Just like Ryland’s parents are doing.”
Your post does not address the high rate of depression and suicide among POST surgery transgendered people.
I’m not sure whether links are allowed so I won’t post one. There are many articles addressing the subject. rates of regret and suicide are proportionally high.
I do feel compassion for transgendered people. However, no matter what they believe in their minds and hearts, the most a transgendered person can ever become is a facsimile of the opposite sex. And, their very real (to them) feelings can only be resolved with utter fakery. If they can accept the fact that they can only look like a woman or a man, they may have an easier time of it. This is assuming that they have a successful surgical result. From what I have noticed, most males make very unconvincing looking women.
““No, good parenting mean raising your child in a way that reduces their risk of depression and suicide. Just like Ryland’s parents are doing.”
Your post does not address the high rate of depression and suicide among POST surgery transgendered people.
I’m not sure whether links are allowed so I won’t post one. There are many articles addressing the subject. rates of regret and suicide are proportionally high”
The risk of suicide in people who have transitioned (which doesn’t always mean surgery) is still high, but it’s lower than if people are not allowed to do so. And most of the issues that transgender people face comes from the way the rest of society treats them, not usually from a dissatisfaction in transitioning to another gender.
You can post links, I’ve done so several times, as have others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual#Sex_reassignment_therapy
http://tgmentalhealth.com/2011/06/18/on-regret-of-gender-transition/
“This is hilarious. “Good parenting mean raising your child in a way that reduces their risk of depression and suicide. Just like Ryland’s parents are doing.”
Come on. They started cutting her hair and dressing like a boy when she was two years old. She didn’t make that decision. Yes, she wanted to wear jeans and play with trucks. That doesn’t mean that she wants to actually be a boy. There is no way that a two year old girl asked to become the face of the transgender movement. She was too young to comprehend what it even means to be transgendered.
I think that forcing a child into this overly-publicized situation may actually serve to increase her risk of depression down the road… but at least her attention-seeking parents can win some awards for being so “brave” in the meantime, right? You comment that “these people have a problem with their brains not having developed properly in line with their bodies.” That’s such a nice assumption to make about a LITTLE GIRL. Yes, I’m sure she will thank her parents for this in fifteen years.”
Your version of events is factually incorrect.
Ryland is the one who told his parents at two that he was a boy. They did not assume that based on preferences and tell him he was a boy. In fact, they maintained that he was a GIRL for two years, while he maintained at all times that he was a boy. It was only after medical professionals advised them of this course of action that they affirmed Ryland as a boy and allowed him to live as one. This isn’t an assumption, this is a medical diagnosis by professionals.
I think there is a point to be made about the publicity. I personally believe the parents are doing it to raise awareness and help other families struggling with this same issue.
@ LLL
“I think that forcing a child into this overly-publicized situation may actually serve to increase her risk of depression down the road… ”
Of course it will. There’s no possible way this poor kid’s going to come out of this unscathed.
And then the people who support this behavior by these parents will turn around and blame it on those of us who spoke out against it.
“@ LLL
“I think that forcing a child into this overly-publicized situation may actually serve to increase her risk of depression down the road… ”
Of course it will. There’s no possible way this poor kid’s going to come out of this unscathed.
And then the people who support this behavior by these parents will turn around and blame it on those of us who spoke out against it.”
Attitudes like yours certainly aren’t HELPING anyone.
@ Daniel Cruit
“She was talking about people probably very much like yourself.”
I don’t know what she meant, since she ignored my question.
“I used to be a Christian- it was attitudes like yours that made me begin the process of deconstructing my judgmental beliefs.”
You mean the judgmental beliefs you are displaying here?
“it is practical and effective for you to be as empathetic and nonjudgmental as possible. Blame no one. Accept everyone. That is the message of Christianity, of Christ. ”
Oh, yeah? Where does it say that?
“Judge no one, lest you be judged. Be kind. Channel your anger into effective healing for those you care about.”
Where is any of this in the BIble?
” I hope you don’t see this as a judgment of you- I mean only to educate you and to help you.”
Now THAT’S hilarious! You’ve done nothing for sentence after sentence except judge me and make claims about the Bible (you know, that Bible you don’t believe it) that it says this and that which it nowhere says.
But hey, you’re not judging, me, right?
“Most atheists will sit quietly by and let you destroy religion from the inside out- it’s what we want.
:LOL! What on earth is that supposed to mean?
Know that you will not ever destroy that Christ of the Bible that you so despise. Know that. Believe in Him or don’t, it doesn’t matter. What you believe has no bearing on whether or not He exists.
“The evidence that the way you speak to others is ineffective is typing to you right now. Me and millions of others who were tired of being blamed and judged. Judge no one, lest you be judged.”
And yet YOU can judge me? That’s ALL you’ve done in this silly screed.
How about addressing any of the points I may have made in any of my comments to which you were responding? Anything on that? On the topic?
Or just judging?
I’m empathetic to your response here- I was pretty sure you would feel that way and I understand. How can you not feel judged when Christians are judged every day? The fact is, we are all judged and blamed everyday for almost everything we do by somebody or another. It’s difficult to trust, and I accept that.
I can only try to reassure you that I don’t judge you or blame you. As humans, we are on the same team, even if we have different beliefs. The beliefs serve only to separate and divide us. Though I can assure you that bringing others to your faith in Christ is not accelerated by blame or judgment. I don’t have to tell you this, likely- we all know that when we are less than kind, and speak out of frustration, we prompt defense in the other person. After all, when attacked, how can we respond except in defense? An attack warrants a defense by it’s nature.
The reason Christianity cannot convert others is not only because of a lack of evidence for it’s claims, but mostly because of the message it’s adherents attempt to communicate- that people who sin are to be judged. Christ did not judge sinners- he ate with them, lived among them, healed them and was kind to them. He understood them and had empathy. That was how he brought people into the fold.
Do you trust my intention?
@ DeArmond
“Girls are not always born female.”
Are you insane? I’m asking seriously. Are you INSANE?
“Girls are not always born female.”
. . . and calves aren’t always born as cows? Infants aren’t always born as humans?
The definition of a girl is a female child.
I know you feel strongly about this, but, and for that reason, try to remember that you have a goal of convincing this person of something- asking them if they are insane is not likely to get you there.
Nope, there are people born with more than one sex. Some are born with contradicting sex organs and sex hormones. It happens. Some of these people will identify as girls some as boys, but they were not born with the obvious means to call them strictly female or male.
“@ DeArmond
“Girls are not always born female.”
Are you insane? I’m asking seriously. Are you INSANE?”
No, he’s EDUCATED. You might want to give it a try some time. Some males are born XX, some females are born XY. REALITY!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
Move past your third-grade understanding of biology and into the world of adults.
@ Daniel Cruit
“I know you feel strongly about this, but, and for that reason, try to remember that you have a goal of convincing this person of something- asking them if they are insane is not likely to get you there.”
It doesn’t make one whit of difference what I feel about anything. I do not make comments or points based on feelings. Feelings do not determine reality or what is objectively true.
When someone says something that is a logical and scientific impossibility, such as, “Girls are not always born female.” then it’s a proper question to ask.
It’s especially proper when they have already deliberate ignored my other questions/points – as did you.
On the contrary- feelings are part of our reality. The person you are speaking with (me and him/her) are both real humans with real feelings and emotions. The person you replied to had feelings that stirred in him/her, and they were moved to enter into this communication with you, as you have with me. And feelings stirred in you, to move you to respond to him/her. Being empathetic allows us to be attuned to other peoples’ feelings- and if you don’t know the emotional state of the person you’re attempting to communicate with, the chances of you ever getting through to that person are impossibly low. This is why I would like to help you do this better. Empathy is what will heal the world, so I try to educate people, one at a time. Nobody is worthy of blame, not you, me, or anyone.
Asking whether someone is insane is never ‘proper’ to ask if your goal is to convince the person of your position. This isn’t a moral statement, as in ‘you’re a bad person for using the word insane’, it’s nothing more than an understanding that if the goal is communication, using words that imply blame or judgment (or words that could be recieved that way) are ineffective and impractical. I know that you want to be effective at what you’re trying to do, so I want to help you.
I did address your questions. That comment may not have been approved yet but I did.
“It doesn’t make one whit of difference what I feel about anything. I do not make comments or points based on feelings. Feelings do not determine reality or what is objectively true.
When someone says something that is a logical and scientific impossibility, such as, “Girls are not always born female.” then it’s a proper question to ask.
It’s especially proper when they have already deliberate ignored my other questions/points – as did you.”
LOL, you are literally the king of ignoring questions and relevant points! We all can see it!
@ Daniel Cruit
“On the contrary- feelings are part of our reality. The person you are speaking with (me and him/her) are both real humans with real feelings and emotions. ”
I’m not saying people don’t have feelings. I am saying that our feelings do not determine what is true or false. They do not determine reality.
“This is why I would like to help you do this better.”
Please do not condescend to me like I am a child or a mentally deficient person.
If you’re not going to actually address anything I’ve actually said, then at least do me the courtesy of not speaking to me like I’m an idiot. Thank you.
I communicate ineffectively a lot, same as everyone- if I had spoken as effectively as possible, then there might have been a chance that you would not have heard what I said as a criticism. I didn’t intend any blame or judgment of you. You’re not an idiot- nobody is.
I’ve actually addressed everything you’ve said here, to me and to others- and really to everything you’ve ever said in your life. I’ve been reading everybody’s discussions here, and the comments make me feel sad, because I want everyone to have the ability to express themselves clearly, without blame. Instead of communication and teamwork, it almost always turns into argument and insult, as you’ve seen quite clearly with the people you are talking to. It’s not morally wrong to feel anger- the point of anger and frustration is to let us know that there is a problem somewhere. But if we try to change things using that anger, we’re not likely to get anywhere, and a majority of the time we entrench the behavior we wish to change. None of these are moral statements, they are simply statements about the most practical way to get from A to B.
Thank you for even going this far with me- my hope is that if I can remind as many people as I can that blame and judgmental words are ineffective at achieving their goals, I can help make the world a kinder place, a world more receptive to positive change.
“I’m not saying people don’t have feelings. I am saying that our feelings do not determine what is true or false. They do not determine reality.”
Where did anyone say that they did? Another accusation you can’t back up.
This has nothing to do with “feeling” and everything to do with physical structures in the brain. You HAVE to keep ignoring that though, because it puts a HUGe hole in your position.
“Please do not condescend to me like I am a child or a mentally deficient person.
If you’re not going to actually address anything I’ve actually said, then at least do me the courtesy of not speaking to me like I’m an idiot. Thank you.”
I still don’t know why you think anyone owes it to you to address your points since you never address anyone elses points or questions.
In any event, you already stated twice that you didn’t even understand the relevant science that has been presented to you. So I’m not sure it’s inappropriate for someone to talk to you like you’re not that smart. You already admitted as much.
@ Daniel Cruit
“I’ve actually addressed everything you’ve said here, to me and to others- and really to everything you’ve ever said in your life. ”
You’ve addressed nothing I’ve said here.
Now you are actually claiming – in public – that you’ve addressed everything I’ve ever said in my life?
Now I know you are either trolling or you have some mental issues. Either way, it’s frightening.
Goodbye.
Yes, I was addressing every instance of communication you’ve ever had with somebody. Every single time we talk with anyone, we bring certain beliefs to the table that color the way we communicate with them. While you were talking with me, you had a belief that my intention was to criticize you or judge you- we often bring this belief to our communications with others, and with good reason. It’s dangerous to trust that people have good intentions in the world we’ve grown up in, since we are all taught, every one of us, that the proper response to a person’s sin is judgment. I’m sure people judge you every day, and it hurts.
Here’s a good rundown of empathy for Christians that I was lucky enough to run across when I was a believer: http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-empathy.html
@ Daniel Cruit
You’ve addressed NOTHING I said. And claiming you’ve addressed everything I’ve ever said in my life is demonstrably false, since not only do we not know each other, but it’s IMPOSSIBLE for any person to address everything another person has ever said in their life.
Sane people know this. You, clearly, do not.
Do not speak to me again.
I think there might have been a miscommunication- when I said that I’ve addressed everything you’ve ever said, what I mean is that I am commenting on the topic of communication and how judgment stops us from really communicating. What I have said about empathy and judgment relates to ‘everything you’ve ever said’ because everything you’ve ever said, or will say, was an attempt at communication- and judgment inevitably erodes our ability to communicate. I do not mean that I have literally listened and responded to every comment you’ve ever made- as you’ve said, that’s not possible, for obvious reasons.
I highly suggest that link- if your goal is to be the best Christian you can be and to serve God, be Christlike- make empathy and compassion a main goal. Please do your best to represent Christ well.
“@ Daniel Cruit
You’ve addressed NOTHING I said. And claiming you’ve addressed everything I’ve ever said in my life is demonstrably false, since not only do we not know each other, but it’s IMPOSSIBLE for any person to address everything another person has ever said in their life.
Sane people know this. You, clearly, do not.
Do not speak to me again.”
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!
Do you actually think anyone cares at all if you want them to respond to you or not? You really think you can order people around ike that, ON A BLOG, and anyone is going to listen?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And that conversation was waaaay over your head.
(Hint – he addresses everything you ever said in your life because his point was about communication in general, he was commenting on all the times you have communicated, not the specific content of those conversations.)
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!
“And science says there are two sexed, determined by chromosomes.”
Except:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XYY_syndrome
Except there’s not…
XO
XXX
XYY
XXY
etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_chromosome_disorders
“I thought that science would say that a dog born with testicles was a male dog. Does this same science you refer to apply to humans? If it does, then the fact that I have a penis would indicate that I am indeed a male. If this is true, does this same science apply to Ryland? My 4 year old son (who has a penis) is constantly telling me he is “Red Iron Man.” Should I then indulge him with promiscuous women and let him try to fly and shoot big lasers with his hands? So, to what facts and science are you referring?”
With regard to transgender issues, the facts and science are that brains are a sex-specific organ. Male brains and female brains are physically different. Transgender people have a brain that is sexed opposite from their bodies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender#Transsexual_people_and_science
It’s like people want to be judgmental bullies on purpose just to be bullies and say it is in the name of defending their religion, that never says anything about girls and boys self identify, but doctors have lots of current data and that seems OK to dismiss and deny. This is a medical issue. Why not leave it at that and stop picking on kids
@ Erika Edwards Polley
“You’ve confused me. Where is there any statement from “Bible thumping creationists”? I believe in the Bible. I also believe in science.
When it comes to transgender issues – DNA is DNA. Period. No amount of surgery will change that. It has nothing to do with Biblical beliefs.”
I’m still waiting to see those statements from Bible thumping creationists as well!
You’ve confused me. Where is there any statement from “Bible thumping creationists”? I believe in the Bible. I also believe in science.
When it comes to transgender issues – DNA is DNA. Period. No amount of surgery will change that. It has nothing to do with Biblical beliefs.”
If you believe in science than you should educate yourself more on the science involved in this issue. DNA is not DNA period. That is a simplistic and misinformed view. Conditions in the womb play a large part. You can have XY DNA and still be born a female if you don’t get the right amount of hormones in the womb at the right time. There are XY females, XX males, and XXY and XYY.
You should also understand that science has shown that the brain is a sex-specific organ. Brains develop differently in males and females. Transgender people have a body that is one sex and a brain that is the other. It is a matter of development gone wrong in the womb.
Two sexes, determined by genetics, you are correct. But gender is psychological, and like most psychological things, there is no black and white. The two needn’t match.
“I’m still waiting to see those statements from Bible thumping creationists as well!”
There’s a whole conversation in these comments regarding creationism and evolution. Are you really too stupid to see that, or are you lying again?
And how could that possibly happen? Do male and female blastocysts fuse in the womb or something (assuming it is even possible)?
@ Krystal
“Did you even watch the video this kid’s parents posted? You’re assuming that the only reason they declared their child transgender is because he started playing with toy cars instead of barbies when that is nowhere near what is going on.”
Did you watch it? If you had, you’d know that’s EXACTLY what they did. They made this decision to pretend this girl is a boy based on nothing more than the childish babbling of a child just learning to speak (saying she’s a boy, as if she really understands any of that) and an “aversion to anything female”, meaning clothing, hair and toys. This child is so young she thinks cutting her hair will make her a boy! (2:33) Of course she cannot understand these things!
They talk about “professionals and experts” but they give ZERO details as to what tests these supposed professionals/experts did on this child to determine that she is a boy trapped in a girl’s body.
That’s because there is no such thing. And you know it.
“Anybody with a brain can understand that a girl liking soccer does not mean she’s a boy, and a boy loving barbies does not mean he’s a girl.”
Anybody with reading comprehension can see that’s exactly what these parents have done. If you’d watched the video, you’d have seen it. And yet you’re going to sit there and argue.. the exact opposite of what you’re arguing? Completely incoherent.
” I’m a girl that’s obsessed with the Avengers. Nobody has tried convincing me that I’m actually a boy. That’s ludicrous, and that’s not what is happening here. I do not get why people don’t understand that.”
Because that’s exactly what the video was saying. And now you’re going to give me a headache by claiming it’s not?
“The video tells us that this child said things like “when the family dies, I will cut my hair so I can be a boy” ”
So what? You just said outward things don’t make you a boy or a girl. Now you’re switching again? This is the complete incoherence of the “transgender” movement!
“and “why did god make me like this”. ”
Again, so what? She’s a young child. Children say all sorts of things that they can’t understand.
“That does not equate to what you are saying. That the child just said “I wanna be a boy!” and the parents were like, “ok sure!” It’s not that hard to understand.”
No, it’s not hard to understand.
A child said childish things, like all children do. Based on nothing else but that, the parents are now circumventing BIOLOGY itself to pretend she’s a boy, confusing this child for life.
It’s abuse of the most horrific sort.
I totally agree, Krystal. Matt Walsh, your ignorance, judgment, and total asshole demeanor is completely off-putting and borderline sickening. Your posts on adults are one thing, but you have no idea what this family has gone through and what this child is going through. Just because you don’t understand it doesn’t make it any less real. Shame on you. Oh, but please just write me off as another left wing loon.
@ Daniel Cruit
“The reason Christianity cannot convert others is not only because of a lack of evidence for it’s claims, …
Christianity has plenty of evidence for its claims – from history, fulfilled prophecy, archaeology and the evidence of design. The problem is that anti-theists have no interest in them.
“but mostly because of the message it’s adherents attempt to communicate- that people who sin are to be judged.”
God judges sin. Now, what on earth does this statement have to do with the article, the topic, or any of my comments to you? Zero.
“Do you trust my intention?”
No, I do not. You’ve addressed nothing I’ve said and instead go on to condescend to me like I’m a child or an idiot.
Please stop wasting my time.
Daniel, you’re missing something important. The woman he caught in prostitution, the man he healed, they were all sinning. He was kind, compassionate, but he told them to “sin no more.”
While we are on the subject of this gender identity…can you define then, what is a boy, and what is a girl? What makes a boy, a boy? What makes a girl, a girl?
Daniel,
I like the way you speak. I sometimes peruse Matt Walsh’s blogs in search of people who leave aside their personal opinions and treat other people like people
I am a Christian, but I find more in common with you than the majority of those who claim to subscribe to my same belief.
Thank you for being human, and being tolerant of other beliefs. I likely don’t have to tell you, but know that you are a rarity. It is a comfort to know that there are still others out there who seek common good over petty differences.
“And how could that possibly happen? Do male and female blastocysts fuse in the womb or something (assuming it is even possible)?”
Proper development in the womb requires the right hormones at the right time in addition to DNA. Again for example, XY females. ALL people begin in the womb as female, even you. That is the standard body model for all humans. Your body will only develop as a male if it gets the proper hormone bath at the right time in development.
If not, then the body develops as female externally.
We don’t know exactly what it is that goes wrong to cause someone to be transgender. We do know that birth defects occur. We know that not all birth defects are due to DNA, many are caused by improper development. We know that the genitals and the brain develop at different times. It’s not at all a stretch to say that while the genitals developed properly, something went wrong during brain development. We’ve also looked at the brains of transgender people and sen that they are more like their chosen gender than their biological one.
What you are describing is Chimerism. It occurs when two or more completely separate clumps of cells originating from separate and distinct zygotes fuse together during the early developmental stage and a single organism is formed. It’s like the reverse of identical twins. One difference though, is that the cells from part of the embryo or fetus may be genetically xy, whereas the cells of another part may be xx. Chimerism is rarely symmetrical, and is sometimes somewhat bilateral, sometimes bi-longitudinal, but usually, occurs in just one relatively small section of the body.
More often, the cause of the brain being a “different sex” than the primary sex characteristics is a result of hormones affecting the physical development of the brain in utero in a way contrary to the way the body ultimately matures at puberty. Consequently, the brain could develop with strong feminine characteristics and qualities, whereas gonads, external genitalia, and sex organs turn out to be masculine, or vice versa.
In other instances, an XY fetus may not respond at all to the hormone androgen, and therefore never develop into a male in utero. Instead, they develop the sexual organs and primary and secondary sexual characteristics of a typical female. They have no ovaries, however; instead, they have undescended testes and are functionally sterile females despite being genetically male.
Then of course, there are the myriad different combinations which occur when the zygote splits apart irregularly resulting in multiple sex chromosomes in a single nucleus, or when one or both sex germs (egg and sperm) contribute more chromosomes than usual, or even no chromosomes at all. In such cases, the sex of the person may be hyper-male (XYY), or hyper-female (XXY), or they may be both– or somewhere in between male and female. In times past, depending on the culture, such children may be assigned a sex by a doctor, religious leader, or parents, or the child may be deemed to be neither male or female, or both.
Of course, the Bible does not address the variants to the standard “male and female”, as if such people don’t even exist, leaving the scientifically ignorant to imagine that the world is as up and down, black and white, right and wrong, male and female as the Bible tells them it is, when the truth is many times far more varied, complex, and nuanced than they imagine it to be. Instead, such people get hung up on believing that right and wrong has less to do with kindness, compassion and love verses meanness, condemnation and hate, than it has to do with following a rote set of rules and guidelines dictating precisely which adults it is acceptable for them to be romantically and sexually intimate with, which adults they are forbidden from developing romantic or sexual relationships with.
The gender of the brain develops in the first trimester; the sex of the body in the second. Sometimes they don’t match up.
What “facts and science” prove god? that is a much more important question. I can counter this with “What facts and science disprove unicorns?” but it doesnt make unicorns any more real
That;’s because this blog post is horrible written and misinformed. The kids did not express normal kids sentiments, they went way beyond that. And the parents resisted for two years before allowing their child to be known as a boy, under the advice of her therapists. There is a lot more to this story than this blog would have us believe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender#Transsexual_people_and_science
You summed it up beautifully right here: “Instead, such people get hung up on believing that right and wrong has less to do with kindness, compassion and love verses meanness, condemnation and hate, than it has to do with following a rote set of rules and guidelines dictating precisely which adults it is acceptable for them to be romantically and sexually intimate with, which adults they are forbidden from developing romantic or sexual relationships with.”
if the outside doesn’t match the inside, it’s the inside that’s broken.
Wow, Doug… you’re an idiot
Shannon….you’re profound. Please explain how I’m wrong. The outside parts work fine; they match the DNA, the inside doesn’t match either one…it’s the inside that’s off.
Refute that.
@ Shannon
“Wow, Doug… you’re an idiot”
And that’s the extent of your “argument”, because you know it’s the truth.
If you insist though, Doug, use that keen intellect and diagnose me then- another person you know nothing about and whom, from you privileged cisgender perch, you might obviously feel within your purview to judge and determine what is incorrect or broken or otherwise not as it should be about my body and mind… but my hypothesis is that you can’t, that you’re just another bandwagon moron that has no clue what you’re talking about, and if presented in the flesh with someone who is transgender (such as myself) you wouldn’t have the first clue what to say or do other than pointing to a bunch of stilted opinions pawned off and regurgitated by a thousand other people before you… it’s okay really, I’m it’s cute that you try to act as though you understand the situation here, but you don’t, I promise you, you don’t!
Shannon, I’m not claiming to understand you. I’m not claiming that you’re an idiot. I laid out a premise that I believe is sound and rational and consistent with what we know about human’s created in God’s image. You made the statement that I’m an idiot…or that you believe my statement is in error (to be gracious to you.)
So, I’m waiting for you to tell me why I’m not just wrong, but I’m an idiot. My statement is rational. Based on what we know about humankind created in God’s image: God made us male and female. (period). We also are in a fallen and broken world. We’re all broken and display it in various and multitude ways. I believe gender confusion is an example of brokenness….a brokenness that can be mended by the way.
There’s no such thing as a sex change operation. God made us male and female…he wasn’t confused. In the Creator’s economy, . Each of us is fearfully and wonderfully made….male and female in God’s image. God doesn’t make mistakes by mixing up the inside from the outside. That happens to us post-birth…and it’s fixable.
What if I told the world I wanted to be a turtle. I want to have a shell sewn on me and I want to live in a glass box and eat lettuce. That would be a warning sign right? You’d be right to get me help. No different. I could have the surgery done, but I’d still be a human….just mutilated.
This will sound foreign to you and outright foolish. It always does in a godless, naturalistic world that believes we are only biology. That we’re not moral beings.
Yeah, that’s it, you got me, Mo… whoever the heck YOU are (not like I care what you think about my argument anyway) I suppose you have some genius insight on the subject here… oh wait, you’re transgender… is that it? Is that why you feel possessed to speak here, like you actually KNOW something about it?
@ Racquelle
“Yeah, that’s it, you got me, Mo… whoever the heck YOU are (not like I care what you think about my argument anyway) I suppose you have some genius insight on the subject here… oh wait, you’re transgender… is that it? Is that why you feel possessed to speak here, like you actually KNOW something about it?”
What on earth are you yammering about?
@ Mo
“@ Shannon
“Wow, Doug… you’re an idiot”
And that’s the extent of your “argument”, because you know it’s the truth.
because you’re an idiot Mo, THAT’s what I’m yammering about
@ Racquelle
“because you’re an idiot Mo, THAT’s what I’m yammering about”
LOL! So, like Shannon, you have no arguments to make and nothing of substance to say, and so you can only call silly names.
Well done!
And your arguments are what, exactly? Heaven sent gospel? Scientific fact? Personal experience? I’ve seen very few people anywhere in the comments here do more than point fingers and call names… you don’t even know anyone transgender do you? What qualifies you to have an opinion here? It seems apparent that you’re not transgender yourself, so who are you to have any clue about the issue?
@ Racquelle
Who do you think you are, judging me and calling me an idiot? We’ve not even had any personal exchanges that I can recall. Nor did you point to anything I’ve said with which you’re taking issue.
So who the blazes do you think you are to judge me and call me stupid names? Have I done that to you? And I bet you demand tolerance from everyone, right?
I don’t need to be “transgender” to know that DNA determines what you are, either male or female. That’s called common sense and basic biology. No amount of feeling, wishing, thinking you are or mutilating yourself via hormones or surgery can EVER change a male to a female or a female to a male. It cannot be done.
So take your insults elsewhere.
But thanks for proving yet AGAIN how it’s the Rainbow Crowd that demands tolerance for themselves while giving absolutely ZERO to anyone else.
Just pure hatred. Thank you for demonstrating it on the internet for all to see!
And thank YOU for proving MY point, that the doggedly self-righteous are easily stirred to hostility when your sad, sad little feathers get ruffled… whatever dude, you haven’t (STILL) presented one solid piece of scientific prove, just a bunch of scientific sounding hogwash… I didn’t once ask you for tolerance, nor have I of anyone else here for any reason… I didn’t need tolerance, I’m better than this petty little exchange with bottom feeders like you… and maybe it is the Rainbow Crowd, and better for it baby… you have no clue about the people your purport to understand SO thoroughly… it’s got nothing to do with DNA (not that anyone has proved beyond a shadow of doubt), it’s got nothing to do with “changing” from male to female (I’ve always been female), and common sense, as you so cleverly employ, has nothing to do with genetics or biology, or anything else of the sort… common sense is what we know in our hearts to be true or evident (which appear rather confused about)… I don’t think or wish or feel anything about myself other than what is already clear and simple truth: that I am transgender, that I am a woman, (and here’s one to put in your pipe and smoke) I’m a lesbian too… “rainbow crowd” that, sir, with a single solitary bit of any real information, and I might (at least momentarily) feel bad about hurting your feelings… the hatred being demonstrated is yours entirely, and that of people like you who are narrow-minded, arrogant, and blind… enjoy swimming in the shallow end, Mo, I hear the water there is quite suitable to pond scum
@ Racquelle
“And thank YOU for proving MY point, that the doggedly self-righteous are easily stirred to hostility when your sad, sad little feathers get ruffled… whatever dude, you haven’t (STILL) presented one solid piece of scientific prove, just a bunch of scientific sounding hogwash… ”
You start off calling me an idiot for no reason whatsoever, when I wasn’t even TALKING to you, and you dare call ME hostile?
Hilarious! I love the projection.
“scientific prove” of what? We were not even talking! You just called me an idiot for no reason!
Biological REALITY is that DNA determines what you are male or female. THAT is proof. If you don’t believe that, then you’re arguing against biology. That’s your problem, not mine.
“I didn’t once ask you for tolerance, nor have I of anyone else here for any reason… I didn’t need tolerance, I’m better than this petty little exchange with bottom feeders like you… ”
Just look at the seething hatred, toward someone who said nothing to you. Nothing at all.
“and maybe it is the Rainbow Crowd, and better for it baby… you have no clue about the people your purport to understand SO thoroughly… it’s got nothing to do with DNA”
So you’re denying that DNA determines sex? You’re going to argue with biology?
“the hatred being demonstrated is yours entirely, and that of people like you who are narrow-minded, arrogant, and blind… enjoy swimming in the shallow end, Mo, I hear the water there is quite suitable to pond scum”
More projection. YOU are the one spewing insults and hatred here. You know that. You know it. Thank you for putting it on the internet for all to see.
Guess what? None of this changes the fact that a man can’t be made into a woman, nor a woman made into a man.
So you can scream and call me names and swear if you want and whatever else you want to do.
You cannot change biology. PERIOD. That’s reality.
see, that’s the funny thing… modern science is pretty amazing! I can, in fact, argue biology because I can, in fact, change physiology, psychology, neurochemistry (should I go on…?)… DNA may indeed determine sex, I think we all know that… but what people like you fail to understand or ever seem willing to concede is that sex and gender are not synonymous… one is biological, and the other is purely social… my gender is not determined by my DNA, plain and simple! My gender is female, not even you can argue that no matter what kind of psuedo science you attempt to suggest. The reality is you don’t know what can be done or can’t be… and that’s hysterical in my book. Sure, you weren’t specifically talking to me, but your comments here ARE in a public forum (in case you failed to notice that) and I’m not really worried about whether what I say is broadcast all over the Internet or not… chances are, I’ve already said it somewhere else, and it’s no secret from anyone I care about on the internet that I say what I say or that I am who I am (transgender, lesbian, woman… in case you forgot)… THAT’s reality!
Good eve, sir… thanks for the thoroughly engaging conversation.
Mo, seriously, do you not see the hypocrisy in chastising someone for replying to you when you weren’t even talking to them? You comment to people all the time that were not talking to you. Almost every reply to this blog gets a comment from you, when they were not talking to you.
—–
“Biological REALITY is that DNA determines what you are male or female. THAT is proof. If you don’t believe that, then you’re arguing against biology. That’s your problem, not mine.”
The fact that XY females and XX males exists disproves the idea that DNA is the only thing that determines male and female. Conditions in the womb matter and can change what DNA has planned. Do you dispute that? Do you have any scientific evidence that shows otherwise?
I know you won’t address any of that, because as soon as people try to pin you down on real science, you make the same INCORRECT statement about biology and run off. You’ve been proven wrong there over and over.
——
“So you’re denying that DNA determines sex? You’re going to argue with biology?”
Correct. I deny that DNA always determines sex. Because if if you don’t get the right hormones at the right time, your body will not develop according to your DNA. This is a well established fact. Are YOU arguing against biology?
——
“You cannot change biology. PERIOD. That’s reality.”
You seem to be the only one here who thinks they can change biology. I haven’t seen anyone else claim anything like that.
“Each of us is fearfully and wonderfully made….male and female in God’s image. God doesn’t make mistakes by mixing up the inside from the outside. That happens to us post-birth…and it’s fixable.”
So Doug, are you saying that nothing can interfere with development in the womb, or that this one thing in particular is special?
@mo
““Did you even watch the video this kid’s parents posted? You’re assuming that the only reason they declared their child transgender is because he started playing with toy cars instead of barbies when that is nowhere near what is going on.””
“Did you watch it? If you had, you’d know that’s EXACTLY what they did. ”
That is a lie, plain and simple. The video states that Ryland said he was a boy and showed great distress over it. “Why did God make me this way”, etc. They did not just accept their child as a boy right away either. They also mentioned that they sought care from experts in this area. They have allowed their child to live as another gender because of advice from his doctors.
SO what, you’re not satisfied unless you can see the entirety of the child’s medical records? YOU WOULDN’T EVEN UNDERSTAND THEM. You have no education or experience with which to assert that the people WITH education and experience are all just “making it up”.
Mo, did YOU watch the video? It started with Ryland refusing ‘feminine’ tiys and clothes, then it went on to him insisting he was a boy and saying ‘When you die I will be able to be a boy’ and it went on for FOUR years. His parents took him to a doctor and he suggested that he could be transgender, so they did their research and saw that if he was transgender he would be at risk of a incredibly high suicide rate!
So they made a decision as a family to let Ryland be and allow him to live as a boy and it’s made a world of difference. He is a happy and healthy child and if it does happen to be a ‘phase’ (which is highly unlikely) he will go back to identifying as a girl and all will be well. If not, he will have had fantastic parents who allowed him to be himself and helped his transition be a smooth process.
It’s the exact OPPOSITE of child abuse. I hope you never have a transgender child. They wouldn’t last with your method of parenting.
“You just said outward things don’t make you a boy or a girl. Now you’re switching again? This is the complete incoherence of the “transgender” movement! ” Kudos. This is the issue in a nutshell.
I’m saying gender confusion may in fact be a birth defect. If you are born with male parts but your brain says otherwise, you’ve got a problem. A problem that needs to be addressed. And why is it that so many confused people think it’s the inside that is right?
Again, if the outside doesn’t match the inside and the outside parts work, its’ the inside that needs to be dealt with.
@ Doug
“I’m saying gender confusion may in fact be a birth defect. If you are born with male parts but your brain says otherwise, you’ve got a problem. A problem that needs to be addressed. And why is it that so many confused people think it’s the inside that is right?
Again, if the outside doesn’t match the inside and the outside parts work, its’ the inside that needs to be dealt with.”
The thing is, people are admitting there IS something wrong, but that the solution is to change the body to match the thoughts, instead of changing the thoughts to match the body!
@Doug
“I’m saying gender confusion may in fact be a birth defect. If you are born with male parts but your brain says otherwise, you’ve got a problem. A problem that needs to be addressed. And why is it that so many confused people think it’s the inside that is right?
Again, if the outside doesn’t match the inside and the outside parts work, its’ the inside that needs to be dealt with.”
So you see that it is a medical issue with a biological basis, you just don’t like the way it’s treated?
Right now, there is nothing we can do to treat the inside. The best we can do is bring the outside as in line with the inside as we can, to lesson people’s distress, depression and risk of suicide. Why are you so opposed with people treating their medical condition in a certain way?
“Again, if the outside doesn’t match the inside and the outside parts work, its’ the inside that needs to be dealt with.”
But how do you deal with the inside? What process would be beneficial in the case of someone who feels their brain is not the “right” gender?
If, as seems to be the case, gender dysphoria is due to physiological rather than psychological factors, the usual remedies of counselling &c will be unhelpful, and indeed could make the situation worse, by trying to counsel away the patient’s inbuilt identity. You might as well try to persuade them they have more fingers.
On the other hand, allowing the person to live as their “internal” gender – which may not include surgery – does work, by allowing them to be who they feel they are. If someone can develop a psychological remedy to bring the mental gender in line with the physical, by all means use it, but at the moment no such remedy exists.
(hope this works, I’ve changed my WordPress details).
@mo
“The thing is, people are admitting there IS something wrong, but that the solution is to change the body to match the thoughts, instead of changing the thoughts to match the body!”
Because right now we don’t have any way of changing the thoughts to match the body. These “thoughts” arise from a brain that was hard wired before birth to be the opposite gender from the body. Allowing people to change their body is the best way we have to treat this condition.
I don’t understand why it matters to you one way or the other how people choose to deal with their medical issues.
“Because right now we don’t have any way of changing the thoughts to match the body.”
Rubbish!!!!!
Counseling….parental training… renewal. Why do you think psychologists are in business?
People who have a personal relationship with Jesus know he transforms us all the time. “If anyone is in Christ he is a new Creation. The old is past the new has come….” 2 Cor 5:17. You’re likely a naturalist that doesn’t believe in the supernatural so that may be utter nonsense to you.
This isn’t a biological problem, it’s an emotional/psychological, even a spiritual, problem. If a 5 year old thinks this way, it’s imperative for the parents to teach the child differently.
Sex is determined biologically. if the inside doesn’t match, treat the inside.
@Doug
“Counseling….parental training… renewal. Why do you think psychologists are in business?”
Yes, I’m aware these things exist. I’m also aware that these things are not effective at changing the situation. Telling someone they are wrong and trying to get them to think differently doesn’t work, and doesn’t do anything to relieve depression and suicidal feelings. In fact, it’s shown that it usually makes it worse.
Because this IS a biological problem.
Why are you so hung up on the way people choose to deal with their medical issues anyways? It has nothing to do with you.
“On the other hand, allowing the person to live as their “internal” gender – which may not include surgery – does work, by allowing them to be who they feel they are. If someone can develop a psychological remedy to bring the mental gender in line with the physical, by all means use it, but at the moment no such remedy exists.
Read more at http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/06/03/this-poor-child-is-confused-not-transgendered/#LzaDFDSzSVHCyEI5.99”
Who they ‘feel’ they are….Feelings don’t make the truth. If I ‘feel’ I’m a rabbit, that doesn’t make me a rabbit.
A remedy does exist: it’s a spiritual one. But naturalists don’t believe in spiritual matters so they are slaves to a world view that says there’s no remedy.
Besides, a five=year-old’s feelings are often irrational, so we shouldn’t alter their future based on them. And adults certainly establish precedent from them.
@Doug
“Who they ‘feel’ they are….Feelings don’t make the truth. If I ‘feel’ I’m a rabbit, that doesn’t make me a rabbit.
A remedy does exist: it’s a spiritual one. But naturalists don’t believe in spiritual matters so they are slaves to a world view that says there’s no remedy.
Besides, a five=year-old’s feelings are often irrational, so we shouldn’t alter their future based on them. And adults certainly establish precedent from them.”
Feelings don’t make the truth, and that includes yours. The truth is that these people have a brain that has not developed in line with their bodies sex. How you feel about the situation doesn’t change that.
Clearly your spiritualism won’t let you look at this with logic and reason. You can’t accept the possibility that this is something with a biological and physiological cause, even though the evidence is in favor of that explanation.
Because to you there is an element of immorality in the way some people choose to deal with the issue. It’s a matter of physical development gone wrong in the womb. It’s really no different than something like a cleft palate, but God doesn’t say anything about cleft palates, so you don’t care. But you think God has something to say about how people should conform to their sex in certain ways.
Anyone who refuses to open their eyes and really take a look is slave. You think I’m a slave to naturalism (even though I am a theist and believe in God and the supernatural. You make the mistake of thinking that anyone who doesn’t believe specifically in Jesus is an atheist). I say your spiritual solution has been tried for hundreds of years and has been shown to do little to nothing for the vast majority of people, and in fact mostly makes things worse, increasing people’s depression and thoughts of suicide. That’s why Exodus closed their doors and apologized.
“Who they ‘feel’ they are….Feelings don’t make the truth. If I ‘feel’ I’m a rabbit, that doesn’t make me a rabbit.”
It would from your point of view. Though I am not aware of any cases where someone was psychologically a different species.
“A remedy does exist: it’s a spiritual one. But naturalists don’t believe in spiritual matters so they are slaves to a world view that says there’s no remedy.”
What spiritual remedy do you have in mind? Simply trusting in God that He will correct the situation? People have found, time and again, that doesn’t happen. Many trans people are believers, including Christian. I am sure a lot of them have asked – even implored – God to sort out their gender, but He doesn’t. Or were you thinking of something more along the lines of Gaia?
(By the way, I don’t think “naturalist” is the word you want here. A naturalists is someone who studies nature, like David Attenborough. Apart perhaps from “atheist”, I’m not sure what decription you’re looking for.)
“Besides, a five=year-old’s feelings are often irrational, so we shouldn’t alter their future based on them. And adults certainly establish precedent from them.”
This is true, but irrational feelings tend not to last consistently for several years. If Ryland had tended to change his story, or “slipped”, during that time, I might agree, but he didn’t, and the experts (presumably psychologists and such) would know how to ask him the right questions to make sure.
@ Doug
“Who they ‘feel’ they are….Feelings don’t make the truth. If I ‘feel’ I’m a rabbit, that doesn’t make me a rabbit.”
Absolutely right. And yet people laugh at this analogy. Why? It’s the same exact thing.
All of your examples proved only micro-evolution, which is not the same thing as macro-evolution. All of those animals remained the same kind of animal. The theory of evolution tried to say that one kind of animal can became another, and there are no examples of that having happened at any time. There are still no fossils of so-called ‘missing links’.
@mo
““Who they ‘feel’ they are….Feelings don’t make the truth. If I ‘feel’ I’m a rabbit, that doesn’t make me a rabbit.”
Absolutely right. And yet people laugh at this analogy. Why? It’s the same exact thing.”
Because it’s not the same. We’re not just talking about “feelings” we’re talking about a brain that has been hard wired in a way that doesn’t match the rest of the body. It’s far more than a matter of feelings.
In response to Mo’s response to Doug:
“ `There are a lot of former homosexuals.’
It’s remarkable how homosexuals and their supporters NEVER address this fact. The best they can do is claim that such people were never really homosexuals!”
Actually, it’s more true to say that they probably still are (or they could be bisexual). There are very few cases of someone actually changing from gay to straight (or vice versa).
“They know that the very existence of even ONE former homosexual shreds their claim that homosexuals are born that way and can never, ever change.”
Nonsense. As far as we can tell, sexuality is established before birth – both homosexuals and heterosexuals are born that way. What evidence do you have to the contrary? As for changing, no-one denies that change is impossible, but it’s an internal process; everything that’s been tried to change sexuality has been shown to be ineffectove, and can cause other problems.
@Tony
“Yes, please, let’s use facts proven by science.
Currently we are letting people with male DNA and male bodies get talked by liberals into having a sex change because they have a mental condidtion. We are letting people with female DNA and female bodies get talked by liberals into having a sex change because they have a mental condition.
Please, use science. Treat people with mental conditions for mental conditions, and treat people with DNA/gender differences with sex changes.
That is exactly what us “Bible-thumpers” are asking for in fact. We want you to use science, instead of beliefs. If science says they are a female, don’t let their belief that they are a male allow them to get a sex change.”
Indeed, let’s use facts proven by science.
We’ll start with the fact that no one is “talked into” anything. The word you’re looking for is probably “allowed”. Next, lets get to the fact that not everyone chooses to have a full sex change operation. Transition can also mean just hormones, or just living as another gender without hormones or surgery.
Then we can get to the fact that we’ve been trying to deal with this issue by treating people’s minds for pretty much forever, and it almost never works. In addition, that course of action usually increases feelings of depression and suicide.
It’s a fact that being allowed to live as their desired gender decreases feelings of depression and suicide. It is a fact that transitioning is intended to combat those feelings (depression and suicide) in addition to the distress the patient feels about their body dysmorphia. It is a fact that transitioning accomplishes that.
There is nothing about transitioning that goes against facts and science. No one thinks you can change DNA. It only goes against your “Bible-thumping” beliefs about morals.
@ Aletaire
” . . and calves aren’t always born as cows? Infants aren’t always born as humans?
The definition of a girl is a female child.”
Yes, indeed. (At least, it is to anyone who accepts basic biology and definitions of words.)
Isn’t it incredible how people can say such nonsense as “Girls are not always born female” with a straight face? But this thread is proof that they not only say it, but in their confused minds they *believe* it.
What can you do to reach such persons? I don’t know anymore. When people now reject basic biology and reality…what else is left?
@Mo
“Isn’t it incredible how people can say such nonsense as “Girls are not always born female” with a straight face?”
How do you know they have a straight face? I certainly wouldn’t . . .
@mo
“Isn’t it incredible how people can say such nonsense as “Girls are not always born female” with a straight face? But this thread is proof that they not only say it, but in their confused minds they *believe* it.”
We’re not confused, we’re educated. You should try it some time.
@Aletaire
““Isn’t it incredible how people can say such nonsense as “Girls are not always born female” with a straight face?”
How do you know they have a straight face? I certainly wouldn’t . . .”
We have a straight face because we know what science really has to say on this subject.
These are good places to start for info
http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender#Transsexual_people_and_science
@ Ivybug
I’ve asked you politely over and over to stop talking to me. You refuse.
Let me guess? You’re going to sit there and claim “girls are not always born female”, like the other mentally ill individual who originally said it?
I am going to ask you yet again to stop harassing me.
You are extremely mentally disturbed. You need help. I suggest you get it, rather than sitting here day and night waiting for me to comment to someone else.
Truly frightening.
But in a way, it’s good it’s on the internet for all to see. This is the level of mental illness we are dealing with in our society today!
Quoting Fahy33:
“So I do have a question now – what is the definition of a boy and what is the definition of a girl? What makes a boy a boy, and what makes a girl, a girl? Can you answer that for me in a clear, concise way? Thank you”
Slugs and snails and puppy-dogs’ tails … sorry.
I’m afraod it’s not always as clear and concise as it first appears.
On a purely physical level, a person’s sex is demonstrated by their sex organs, which develop during pregnancy. Usually (though not always) this matches their DNA.
On a psychological level, their gender identity – what they feel they are – is determined by their brain, which also develops during pregnancy, though at a different rate from the body. Usually (though not always) this matches their physical sex. When the brain and body develop differently, the person is transgender.
The psychological gender identity is something that the person “knows” quite early on, regardless of other factors. As a previous poster said, her son “knew” he was a boy, though didn’t know how he knew, just as you “know” what you are without having to look down.
Incedentally, gender dysphoria (transgenderism) is not the same as transvestism (cross-dessing), nor is it homosexuality – gender identity is not related to sexuality.
@mo
“I’ve asked you politely over and over to stop talking to me. You refuse.”
Darn right. You are a liar and a hypocrite spreading lies and misinformation. I’m not going to let you do that without also countering it with truth.
——
“Let me guess? You’re going to sit there and claim “girls are not always born female”, like the other mentally ill individual who originally said it?”
I am going to sit here and claim what science has shown to be true. That brains are also male and female and sometimes the brain doesn’t match the body. Bodies don’t always match DNA. That’s a fact. So you could say “girls are not always born female”. Since you are so smart why don’t you tell me what you would call a woman with XY gonadal dysgenesis? Where a person is female externally buy has XY DNA?
No one here is mentally ill, with the probable exception of you. Science is on our side.
—
“I am going to ask you yet again to stop harassing me.
You are extremely mentally disturbed. You need help. I suggest you get it, rather than sitting here day and night waiting for me to comment to someone else.”
You can ask all you want, but you will not silence me. I know you very much want me to stop countering your lies and misinformation but it won’t happen.
If I’m so crazy for answering all your lies, what does that make you, sitting here day and night waiting for another comment to come along so you can throw in an insult or a lie and then run away from any serious discussion?
Thank you for responding…so from what I’m gathering, who you are (boy or girl) is subjective, not objective, then?
It just makes more sense to listen to people when they’re expressing their own feelings about who they are inside, than it does to impose our own views. After all, there is no such thing as a completely objective idea. Scientists are human and can be swayed by feelings, religious people are human and can be swayed, too. So why not just listen, really listen, to the person whose life is going to be the most powerfully affected by whatever is decided?
@Fahy33
“Thank you for responding…so from what I’m gathering, who you are (boy or girl) is subjective, not objective, then?”
There does seem to be a physiological element. Male and female brains are different, and transgendered people seem to have brains that are more like their chosen gender than their physical sex.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender#Transsexual_people_and_science
Quoting Fahy33:
“Thank you for responding…so from what I’m gathering, who you are (boy or girl) is subjective, not objective, then?
I’m not sure if “subjective” is the right word, but certainly the gender that one “knows” one is is of mental rather than physical origin. When this mental knowledge differs from the physical construction, then the person is transgender.
@ That Susan
“It just makes more sense to listen to people when they’re expressing their own feelings about who they are inside, than it does to impose our own views.
So if my view is that I’m the Queen of England, then everyone must listen to me and treat me as such. After all, no one should impose their own views on me, right?
What nonsense. Feelings don’t change biology!
Males have male DNA. Females have female DNA. PERIOD!
My God, but to listen to people saying such insane things is horrifying!
“After all, there is no such thing as a completely objective idea.”
And yet you don’t even believe that, because YOU believe your statement to be objectively true.
Feelings don’t trump biology. If you have a male body, you’re MALE. If you have a female body, you are FEMALE.
Do you not comprehend basic biology and reality? Are you really claiming you believe this stuff?
“So if my view is that I’m the Queen of England, then everyone must listen to me and treat me as such. After all, no one should impose their own views on me, right?”
A transgender person isn’t asking to be treated “better” than anyone else. If you happened to know that I was born “Susan” and was born with female genitalia, but at some point I changed my name to “Stan” and started dressing and presenting myself as male, how is it “treating me like the Queen of England” to simply call me by my chosen name?
After all, there are sometimes kids who don’t like their given names and at some point decide they want to be addressed by another name. As long as they’re not continuously switching their name and getting ticked off when people forget, it’s really not a lot to ask people to learn the new name.
And unless you believe a male is inherently better than a female, or vice versa, there’s no need to equate someone presenting as a different gender with someone “rising above their station in life.”
“What nonsense. Feelings don’t change biology!”
No one ever said that they did. What some people have been trying to explain is that there is a biological makeup to the brain as well as to the genitalia, and sometimes the two don’t match. Have you ever heard the saying about our brain being our most powerful sex organ?
I honestly identify much more with my mind than I do with my genitalia or other external aspects. Maybe it’s partly because I’m 50 and the way I look on the outside no longer always “matches” how young, smart, and creative I feel on the inside. I feel like my mind is much more “me” than my body is, although I certainly do believe in nurturing and caring for my body.
“Males have male DNA. Females have female DNA. PERIOD!”
Is it really so hard for you to grasp the fact that there are some rare cases where the gender of the brain does not match the sex of the body?
“My God, but to listen to people saying such insane things is horrifying!”
It’s much more horrifying to me to hear of people refusing to love and accept those who don’t fit the norm.
“And yet you don’t even believe that, because YOU believe your statement to be objectively true.”
I do not claim to be completely objective. The longer I live, the more I realize I don’t have a clue about many things. That’s why it’s so important to me to listen to my kids, especially when it comes to decisions that affect them.
“Feelings don’t trump biology. If you have a male body, you’re MALE. If you have a female body, you are FEMALE.”
This is how it works out for most people – but there are a few people that it doesn’t work out that way for. How does it hurt you to just stretch enough to make room for some different kinds of people in the world?
“Do you not comprehend basic biology and reality?”
Again, the longer I live, the more I realize I don’t know. But learning is actually fun once you’re secure in the knowledge that you are completely loved and completely loveable. You know that whatever you learn, you won’t lose anything that’s really important. Because you’re completely connected to love, and love won’t let you go.
“ Are you really claiming you believe this stuff?”
I believe in people, and I believe in the power of love. Again, since we’re all bound to be subjective in one way or another, it just makes sense to be subjective in favor of the actual “subjects” in this situation – the people who feel they’re a different gender inside than what they look like on the outside. I think they’re in a better position to know how they feel than anyone else.
@mo
“What nonsense. Feelings don’t change biology!
Males have male DNA. Females have female DNA. PERIOD!”
No one said feelings change biology, so you must be hallucinating all the posts where you think anyone has said that. I seriously suggest mental health counseling. Or maybe just a reading comprehension class.
Also, your ideas about DNA are still factually wrong.
Females exist with male DNA. It’s called XY dysgenesis. That’s a fact.
Males exist with female DNA. It’s called XX male syndrome. That’s a fact.
I will also remind you and anyone else reading this, that being transgendered is a matter of having a brain that has developed in accordance with one sex, while the body has developed in accordance with another.
—–
“Do you not comprehend basic biology and reality? Are you really claiming you believe this stuff?”
The only person who is having a hard time comprehending biology is you. Not only have you already admitted that you don’t understand it, you refuse to even acknowledge the well established biological facts that completely undermine your basic premise.
@ That_Susan
“A transgender person isn’t asking to be treated “better” than anyone else. ”
I said nothing about better or worse. I said if I feel I’m the Queen, should I be treated as such? Substitute any identity you choose. The point is that feelings don’t change reality. If I am not, in reality, such-and-such a person, then no matter how much I think or feel that I am that other person, I am still not that other person. If people treat me as that other person, they are lying to themselves and to me.
“If you happened to know that I was born “Susan” and was born with female genitalia, but at some point I changed my name to “Stan” and started dressing and presenting myself as male, how is it “treating me like the Queen of England” to simply call me by my chosen name?”
Because your name does not make you who and what you are. Neither does your clothing. Biology does. If you have a female body and female DNA, then you can call yourself whatever and whomever you want, you are still a female and you are still yourself, with your own unique DNA.
Do you honestly not know this? Do I really need to say such basic things to an adult, presumably educate person living in a modern, civilized society? Are you just doing this stuff to play and mock? Or do you sincerely not know these most basic facts of life and reality? I can’t even fathom how such a thing can be so. How can someone grow up to adulthood and not know that there are males and females and that changing your name, your clothes or even mutilating your body through hormones/surgery CANNOT ever change male DNA to female or female to male? It boggles the mind. It really does.
“After all, there are sometimes kids who don’t like their given names and at some point decide they want to be addressed by another name. As long as they’re not continuously switching their name and getting ticked off when people forget, it’s really not a lot to ask people to learn the new name.”
Don’t play games with me. You know nobody’s talking about changing names. You also know full well that changing your name doesn’t change your DNA. You know that. If nothing else, you KNOW at least that.
That’s as far as I’m going. Now I know you’re just playing around and wasting my time.
Why, I don’t know.
@mo
“I said nothing about better or worse. I said if I feel I’m the Queen, should I be treated as such? Substitute any identity you choose.”
Ok, how about a nickname? That’s a pretty common way that people choose to change their identity. If Someone wants to be called Tiny instead of the name on their birth certificate, Joe, do you give them a hard time about how they are not really Tiny, but Joe, and that they are lying to themselves and you? No, you just call them by the name they prefer.
————–
“Because your name does not make you who and what you are. Neither does your clothing. Biology does. If you have a female body and female DNA, then you can call yourself whatever and whomever you want, you are still a female and you are still yourself, with your own unique DNA.”
So? And? What does that have to do with calling someone by the name they prefer? Care to actually address the topic?
———–
“I can’t even fathom how such a thing can be so. How can someone grow up to adulthood and not know that there are males and females and that changing your name, your clothes or even mutilating your body through hormones/surgery CANNOT ever change male DNA to female or female to male? It boggles the mind. It really does.”
I’m having a hard time with how stupid you are on this point. NO ONE THINKS CHANGING A NAME CHANGES DNA. NO ONE HAS **EVER** SAID THAT.
SO WHAT IS YOUR POINT HERE?
Any time talk gets serious, you put words in other people’s mouths so you can make fun of what they didn’t say and claim that people are wasting your time. You have plenty of time. What you don’t have is logic, education, the basic intelligence to discuss the topic, or the guts to do so.
“I said nothing about better or worse. I said if I feel I’m the Queen, should I be treated as such?”
Okay, I’ll concede that “better” was the wrong adjective, because I’m honestly not all that sure that the Queen of England, or any other famous person for that matter, is actually treated any “better” than I am.
But when you talk about a person publicly changing his or her gender identity, I see it as inaccurate to compare it to a regular person like me expecting to receive the kind of special (not necessarily better) treatment that’s lavished on famous personages.
A transgender person is NOT asking for certain roads to be blocked off or for a large number of police officers to be on special security detail when he or she comes to visit your city (unless this person IS a celebrity and needs some special protection because of certain fans that might not respect boundaries or might even try to become famous themselves by harming or killing a celebrity).
A transgender person who isn’t also a famous person is just asking to be treated as a regular, ordinary citizen and only expects to be addressed by the name and pronouns that he or she wants to be addressed by, and accepted as the gender that he or she identifies with.
“The point is that feelings don’t change reality. If I am not, in reality, such-and-such a person, then no matter how much I think or feel that I am that other person, I am still not that other person. If people treat me as that other person, they are lying to themselves and to me.”
So if I started dressing and presenting myself as a male and changed my name to “Stan,” but you knew that I’d been born with female genitalia and had initially been given the name “Susan,” you believe you’d be committing the sin of dishonesty if you called me “Stan?” You’d feel that the only way you could please God would be to insist on continuing to call me “Susan,” even though I’d legally changed my name to “Stan?” How sad for you.
“Because your name does not make you who and what you are. Neither does your clothing. Biology does. If you have a female body and female DNA, then you can call yourself whatever and whomever you want, you are still a female and you are still yourself, with your own unique DNA.”
Okay, so it sounds like you’d actually be okay with calling me Stan, then, and accepting that I was dressed as a man and presenting myself as a man. You would just be thinking in your heart, “No matter what she does, she’ll always have XX DNA; she’ll never have XY DNA,” which would actually be true, of course. Transgender people have already accepted that they can’t change their DNA. All they want to do is be able to live their lives as the person they are inside.
“Do you honestly not know this? Do I really need to say such basic things to an adult, presumably educate person living in a modern, civilized society?”
Yes, I already do know about XX and XY DNA, and you really don’t have to keep explaining, over and over, that we can’t change our chromosomes. Everyone already agrees with you on this point, so I don’t know why you keep harping on it. But for some reason, you feel compelled to do so.
“Are you just doing this stuff to play and mock?
No.
“Or do you sincerely not know these most basic facts of life and reality? I can’t even fathom how such a thing can be so. How can someone grow up to adulthood and not know that there are males and females and that changing your name, your clothes or even mutilating your body through hormones/surgery CANNOT ever change male DNA to female or female to male? It boggles the mind. It really does.”
Again, I (and also every other pro LGBTQ-rights person who’s been posting here) does understand that an XX person cannot become an XY person, and vice versa. We get that. We simply also realize that for a small portion of the population, the gender of the brain doesn’t match the sex of the body. Just because the majority of people are cisgender, that’s no reason to insist that the minority who are transgender need to fake it and pretend they are cisgender, too! The existence of transgender people is ABSOLUTELY NOT any kind of threat to the cisgender majority!
If you were born with male genitalia and also psychologically identify as male, you are completely free to keep on being yourself! Accepting transgender people really won’t hurt you in the least, so why do you act like it’s such a threat?
“Don’t play games with me. You know nobody’s talking about changing names. You also know full well that changing your name doesn’t change your DNA. You know that. If nothing else, you KNOW at least that.”
Right, but thinking of this issue in terms of how it’s likely to impact you, we’re basically just talking about respecting people enough to address them by their chosen names and pronouns. And yeah, we “get” that none of this changes DNA.
“That’s as far as I’m going. Now I know you’re just playing around and wasting my time.
Why, I don’t know.”
It’s seriously okay if you’ve decided to quit reading and responding to my posts. I’ll keep posting anyway, because I think some other people WILL read them and some may even be helped by them.
@ Ivybug
You again. You will not stop.
Hear me and hear me well.
No amount of feeling, wishing or mutilation can change DNA from male to female or female to male.
Got it? No, you don’t, because you’re still yammering on here.
That’s reality. That’s biology.
And if you think otherwise, then you’re fighting against THAT.
@mo
“You again. You will not stop.
Hear me and hear me well.
No amount of feeling, wishing or mutilation can change DNA from male to female or female to male.
Got it? No, you don’t, because you’re still yammering on here.
That’s reality. That’s biology.
And if you think otherwise, then you’re fighting against THAT.”
Of course I’m not going to stop, you’re still confused and spreading misinformation. You don’t even have the decency to get the argument correct.
When have I or anyone else said that anything can change DNA? No where.
The reason I am still here discussing this topic is because you are such a cowardly liar you have to make up a phony argument to rail against so you can pretend the real facts you’ve been presented with don’t exist.
DNA does not always dictate your gender. That’s reality. That’s biology.
Quoting Mo to Ivybug:
“No amount of feeling, wishing or mutilation can change DNA from male to female or female to male.”
Mo, I don’t know why you keep saying this, because nobody has ever said otherwise.
@ Laurence
“Mo, I don’t know why you keep saying this, because nobody has ever said otherwise.”
How it infuriates me to see people mocking an important topic like this. And especially when we’re talking about the abuse and destruction of an innocent little girl.
No one has ever said otherwise? Looks like you need to go back and read some of the 2,000+ comments on this entry. (Especially the ones where delusional people keep using male pronouns to refer to this little girl.)
@mo
“No one has ever said otherwise? Looks like you need to go back and read some of the 2,000+ comments on this entry. (Especially the ones where delusional people keep using male pronouns to refer to this little girl.)”
No one uses male pronouns because we think anyone has changed their DNA, we do so out of respect.
You know that, you’ve been told that. You’ve also been told many, many times, that no one has said or thinks anyone can change DNA. So everytime you say anyone thinks they can change DNA, YOU ARE LYING. You know you are lying, and you do so out of desperation. Your whole argument would fall apart if you were honest about your opponents positions, and you know it.
There are no comments where anyone says they think they can change DNA. LIAR.
Quoting Mo to me:
“How it infuriates me to see people mocking an important topic like this. And especially when we’re talking about the abuse and destruction of an innocent little girl.”
If you think I’m mocking, please point out where so I can correct it. I would not dream of mocking anyone in this situation. We are not talking about “abuse and destruction” of a child, we are talking about a person who was born with physical attributes of one sex but feels psychologically they are the other. The abuse is coming from people who refuse to accept Ryland’s – and other trans people’s – self identity and treat them badly because of it.
“No one has ever said otherwise? Looks like you need to go back and read some of the 2,000+ comments on this entry.”
I have. And not one of them said it was possible to change DNA.
“(Especially the ones where delusional people keep using male pronouns to refer to this little girl.)”
The reason we are using male pronouns for Ryland is because he has asked to be referred to in that way. It’s called politeness and respect. Not to do so would be disrespectful and rude.
Mo it’s not abuse. The only one here abusing people is you. Stop.
@ EvaM
“Mo, did YOU watch the video? It started with Ryland refusing ‘feminine’ tiys and clothes, then it went on to him insisting he was a boy ”
“him” what lunacy. You really do think that repeating “him” and “he” makes this little girl into a little boy.
That’s insane.
Clothes and toys don’t make you male or female. Biology does. Period.
You are starting to sound insane. “It’s biology. PERIOD.” It’s 10th grade biology. No nuance. Is that all you are capable of? What about intersex and Turner Syndrome and Klinefelter syndrome. Did God not care about them enough to make them conform to your binary view of the world? DId they just lose the genetic lottery? Do a little research and stop responding with the same meaningless, pat response. And show biology a little more respect.
@mo
“@ EvaM
“Mo, did YOU watch the video? It started with Ryland refusing ‘feminine’ tiys and clothes, then it went on to him insisting he was a boy ”
“him” what lunacy. You really do think that repeating “him” and “he” makes this little girl into a little boy.
That’s insane.
Clothes and toys don’t make you male or female. Biology does. Period.”
What a surprise, mo avoids and ignores anything of substance in favor of the same pack of lies and ridiculousness.
No one thinks pronouns make a person a different sex, it’s still just a matter of respect. No one thinks clothes and toys make a person who they are either. All you do is play games, that’s why you always bring up the same irrelevant and incorrect drivel. Your still putting words in other people’s mouths because what they are really saying makes you look like a fool.
Don’t worry mo, you don’t have to worry about other’s making you look like a fool, you are doing a fine job of it yourself.
Do you think no one else can see all the evidence presented with regard to the realities and the complexities of gender? The existence of intersex persons, XX males, and XY females? Trying to pretend the realities of biology do not exist is simply delusional.
MO FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WILL YOU READ THE WHOLE ARGUMENT BEFORE REPLYING!
Of course it STARTED with Ryland refusing feminine toys and clothes. But contrary to what you want to be true, that is not the point that Ryland’s parents began treating Ryland as a boy. They didn’t even start when he kept insisting he was a boy. They only did that after Ryland became depressed at the fact that biologically she was female and this didn’t make sense. This wasn’t who he was. That’s why he said ‘I can’t wait until you die so that I can cut my hair and be a boy.’ That was when they took him to a doctor and the DOCTOR suggested transgenderism. This was when they researched the condition (something you are apparently incapable of) and realised that if Ryland was indeed transgender then the best thing they could do for him was allow him to transition. Otherwise he would become depressed, feel ostracised from the entire world and subsequently his chances of wanting to commit suicide would skyrocket.
Now how many parents do you really think would want to take that chance? How many parents could claim to love their child but not let them be themselves even in the most basic way (clothes, toys and pro-nouns) which is literally all they have changed?
They are not claiming to have changed his DNA, no sane person would claim that transgender people can do that. All they’ve done is let him be who he feels he really is, not a dog, not Iron Man, not the Queen of England, a boy. They are not abusing him, they are not confusing him, they are parenting him in the way that they have decided is the best way for him – something which I thought Matt Walsh and co. were all for not so long ago…
@ Larry
“You are starting to sound insane. “It’s biology. PERIOD.” It’s 10th grade biology. No nuance. Is that all you are capable of? What about intersex and Turner Syndrome and Klinefelter syndrome. Did God not care about them enough to make them conform to your binary view of the world? DId they just lose the genetic lottery? Do a little research and stop responding with the same meaningless, pat response. And show biology a little more respect.”
It’s not even 10th grade biology. It’s more like preschool level biology, since most people learn they are either boys or girls by the time they are potty trained. Oh, of course they don’t understand the full meaning of the term. But they know the basics – that boys have certain types of bodies, while girls have another..
And yes it’s that simple. Especially in the case of this girl Ryland, who, aside from her hearing issue, doesn’t have any physical or hormonal defects or problems.
The people who are insane are those who not only reach adulthood not knowing this simple fact (or rather, denying it) but who also claim that preferences in clothes/toys/hairstyle makes someone a boy or a girl. Those who are insane are those who think that repeating, “he” and “him” in reference to a biological female somehow transforms a girl into a boy.
That doesn’t just sound insane, that IS insane.
I’m so sorry. I tried to give you credit for high school bio, but you stopped learning in pre-k. It all makes sense now. It’s a gross simplification of how the human body works. And by stomping your feet and repeating yourself, it doesn’t make what you think true. But the kind thing to do, no matter how you feel about it, is to let these parents (who know their child best) make the decisions along with health care providers who know a thing or two about these scenarios. It’s find to voice your concern that such a permanent decision may not be the right one, but instead you resort to absolutes and venom. Can’t you just accept that maybe you don’t know/understand something. I don’t know what’s right for Ryland because I don’t know him. But I accept the family’s decision to do what they think is best. I’m not high five-ing other liberals because this story is a triumph. Instead I pray to God that they did the right thing for their child and I’m happy inside that so many people come to their defense. Not because I’m sure they’re right but because I’m sure bashing them, calling their child confused and spewing misinformation adds nothing to the world.
@mo
“It’s not even 10th grade biology. It’s more like preschool level biology, since most people learn they are either boys or girls by the time they are potty trained. Oh, of course they don’t understand the full meaning of the term. But they know the basics – that boys have certain types of bodies, while girls have another..
And yes it’s that simple. Especially in the case of this girl Ryland, who, aside from her hearing issue, doesn’t have any physical or hormonal defects or problems.
The people who are insane are those who not only reach adulthood not knowing this simple fact (or rather, denying it) but who also claim that preferences in clothes/toys/hairstyle makes someone a boy or a girl. Those who are insane are those who think that repeating, “he” and “him” in reference to a biological female somehow transforms a girl into a boy.
That doesn’t just sound insane, that IS insane.”
Who are all these mysterious people who think using a pronoun changes a person? Are you hallucinating? I wouldn’t be surprised.
If anyone is insane here, it’s you, mo. You are clearly delusional with your continued denial of biological facts.
Ryland absolutely has a physical defect, his brain did not develop correctly in accordance with his body. Your continued denial that anyone has even presented this reality to you is absurd. You won’t even address the fact that male brains and female brains are different, or even acknowledge that anyone has said it.
Because you know the science is solid on that. Once you admit there is some difference in brains, you have to admit that birth defects occur, including in the brain. Then there is no denying the possibility that Ryland has a brain that developed in line with the opposite sex.
Deny biology all you want, but if that’s insanity, you are the paragon example.
@ Larry
“I’m so sorry. I tried to give you credit for high school bio, but you stopped learning in pre-k. It all makes sense now. It’s a gross simplification of how the human body works. And by stomping your feet and repeating yourself, it doesn’t make what you think true”
People such as yourself are the ones repeating “he” and “him” and “boy” in reference to this little girl, Ryland. And yet you’re going claim things are the other way around?
The projection here is terrifying. But I’m glad it’s on the internet for all to see.
The rest of your comment I did not read.
No, that would be you, this child’s abusive parents, and all the other deeply disturbed individuals here who think that just because a little girl doesn’t like dresses or likes certain haircuts or toys, this means she’s a boy.
I don’t know what will shake you out of this mentality. I don’t know what else I can appeal to, once biology and reality are rejected.
It really is the textbook definition of insanity.
I’m the deeply disturbed one for showing the family some sensitivity and respect for a situation I can only attempt to understand. Pot, meet kettle.
@mo
“No, that would be you, this child’s abusive parents, and all the other deeply disturbed individuals here who think that just because a little girl doesn’t like dresses or likes certain haircuts or toys, this means she’s a boy.”
What people are those? Show me what people you are talking about, or are you hallucinating again?
Either that or just plain lying again. Good thing your a Christian so you can be forgiven for all the lying you keep doing. You know for a fact that what these parents did was not based on just clothes and toys. You know there was much more to it and that those parents sought medical intervention. They do what they do under the advice of medical professionals who are actually educated, unlike you.
The only person who is rejecting biology and reality in this discussion is you. SO if you want to figure it out, start in your own head.
@ Ivybug
You still cannot get it through your head that I am no longer reading your comments,can you? It truly is frightening to see such clearly disturbed people on this web site.
The sad part is I don’t even need to read it to know that you’re still promoting the delusion that preferences in superficial things like hair, clothing, toys make one a boy or a girl, instead of this being determined by DNA. Talk about science deniers!
It’s terrifying.
Feel free to keep on in your delusion. It does not change this fact. EVER.
@mo
“You still cannot get it through your head that I am no longer reading your comments,can you? It truly is frightening to see such clearly disturbed people on this web site.
The sad part is I don’t even need to read it to know that you’re still promoting the delusion that preferences in superficial things like hair, clothing, toys make one a boy or a girl, instead of this being determined by DNA. Talk about science deniers!
It’s terrifying.
Feel free to keep on in your delusion. It does not change this fact. EVER.”
The fact that you respond to my comment so often makes it pretty clear that you read them. And even if you didn’t, I’m still going to counter your lies and misinformation. You still can’t get that through your head, I guess.
You know darn well that I have never, and no one here has ever said that superficial things make someone male or female. Once again, your positions are so weak that you can’t actually argue against what people are saying, you have to make up nonsense to fight against that nobody said.
And DNA STILL doesn’t completely determine your sex! You, mo, are the science denier everytime you say that. Hormones and conditions in the womb can mess up what DNA has planned. This is a fact and it’s just delusional insanity and a whole lotta fear that prevents you from addressing that.
@ Melissa
“If gender refers to cultural or social differences, then how is gender hard-coded into the brain at birth? How do you even have a gender before you have been exposed to culture or society?”
This is such a good question! Let’s see if there’s an answer.
It just serves to show the inherent confusion of the entire position. After all, these same people claim homosexuals are born that way! If you even dare to suggest that cultural/social/environmental influences may have something to do with it, you’ll be screamed down.
If people would just stop for a minute and think it through, they’d see how contradictory the entire thing is. But that’s part of the problem. Everything these days is based on feelings. Someone “feels” this or that, and that’s as far as it goes. Thinking and rationality don’t even come into play.
It’s horrifying. How can an entire culture be mentally ill? I mean, what else can you call it when people are incapable of thinking rationally any longer?
@Melissa
“If gender refers to cultural or social differences, then how is gender hard-coded into the brain at birth? How do you even have a gender before you have been exposed to culture or society?”
Brains are sex-specific organs. Male brains and female brains have distinct differences. Brains also come “knowing” what sex they are, they are hard coded with it. In the vast majority of people, the brain develops to match the sex of the body. In a transgendered person, the brain did not develop in line with the body. The body may be female, but the brain developed like a male brain instead, and is now hard wired to think it is male. This is most likely due to improper hormone levels during fetal development.
So, in a way, it would be more accurate to say that the brain is pre-programmed with an incorrect sex, than with gender.
How rational is it for one person to make decisions for another person regarding how that other person wants to dress and be addressed and treated? Also, since humans are emotional creatures, how rational is it to just disregard anyone’s emotions?
Additionally, how rational is it for one person on this thread to keep repeating phrases like “you can’t change your DNA” when no one, absolutely no one, on this thread has said that DNA can be changed?
Rationally speaking, this issue is not all that hard to deal with once we remove the quotations marks around the adjective “transgender” and just decide to listen to people, without superimposing our own experience of being a girl who liked trucks but still always identified as female, and so on. Listening and taking people seriously is rational behavior.
Talking over them by saying things like “I was a tomboy but I’m still happy to be female, so that must be Ryland’s situation, too, even though he was very unhappy with just being a girl who liked ‘boy stuff,’ and actually expressed the desire to live as a boy,”, or by implying that they said things they never said, is highly irrational.
@mo
Good ol’ mo, you know I provided an answer, the same one I have been providing. That it’s more accurate to say the brain is hard coded with the incorrect sex, since brains are sex-specific and a transgender person has a brain that is more like their chosen gender than their biological sex.
There is nothing contradictory about any of it. It only looks that way to you because you are not looking at the things people are actually saying. You spend all your time making up things to argue against, and only see those. All the contradictions you think your opponents make are literally all in your head.
The only person who is having trouble with rational thinking on this topic, and/or may be mentally ill, is clearly you.
It’s weird the way you keep bringing up gay people too, as if that has anything to do with anything in this topic. Who even cares if gay people are born that way. You have a weird obsession.
Stop talking sense to him. He doesn’t want to hear it. Compassion doesn’t sell! It’s all about absolutes. Black and white. Right and wrong. And for someone who doesn’t want his own parenting decisions to be judged, he certainly knows how to dish it out. In short, he’s a big fat HYPOCRITE! But in his (deluded) mind he’s just a speaker of the truth. It’s easy to be mean when you are sitting at a computer screen. I’m just glad there are lots of voices supporting this family to drown out this nonsense.
This is all irrelevant….
we need to accept who we are and NOT fall into the the trap of trying to “fix’ ourselves by fitting into some mold …
God makes no mistakes; man thinks he can improve on what God has created? WOW
@Ll
“This is all irrelevant….
we need to accept who we are and NOT fall into the the trap of trying to “fix’ ourselves by fitting into some mold …
God makes no mistakes; man thinks he can improve on what God has created? WOW”
I’m sure it’s not relevant to you because it’s not an issue you have to deal with in life. It’s pretty relevant to the people who actually have to deal with these issues in their life.
I keep hearing this “God doesn’t make mistakes” AS IF THINGS LIKE BIRTH DEFECTS AND DISEASE DON’T EXIST.
I’m so ashamed to see some of the comments on here, people feeling they have a right to devalue and lessen the struggles of an issue they clearly no little to nothing about.
Transgender people are not idiots, they are well aware that their DNA cannot be altered to make them at a biological level into the sex they identify with. However, what they do have control over is to alter the way they live and begin to transition into a role of the opposite sex, which will significantly decrease feelings of severe depression, self-hatred, shame and many other powerful feelings that people born into a sex aligned with their identity would probably have trouble to fathom.
I actually laugh when I see comments like “If I believe I am a rabbit, then people should accept me as one” etc etc. Not ONCE has a person’s brain been analysed and a medical professional has said “oh look, this person’s brain configuration looks exactly like that rabbit that we studied”… how is it so hard to believe, when a foetus is originally female, that the development could go a different way that was initially intended. Yes, you are right in saying that even if the brain did go in a different direction, that doesn’t change the sex of the body. HOWEVER, no one is asking you to play doctor and take it upon yourself to shout at people what their sex is, you are just being asked to be a DECENT human being, and respect that not everyone on this earth came out of the womb as ‘perfect’ as you. Just think a moment about the internal battle that people with this hideous disorder have had to contend with pretty much all of their lives, how would you feel if you were denied being who you ARE, as a result of a cruel trick of nature.
As for the individual the article is written about, there have been studies which indicate (not able to locate source via this mobile device, but Wikipedia on gender identity is a good place to start) that a person’s view of themselves is pretty much fully established by age three. We’re not talking about girls and boys that are tomboys or feminine males, were talking about children who unwavering state that they are the opposite sex, state their is something very wrong with their body, or inquire as to when they are going to change into a girl/boy. Instances such as these are not normally “grown out of”. If this child does decide that they don’t want to identify a certain way, that child will make it clear to the parents. As I’m sure many of you know, children tend to voice their opinions a lot more readily than adults. As for ‘psychologically damaging’ the child, it’s no different to babies who are naked in adverts then grow up feeling embarrassed their parents put them in it. It’s not going to have an enormous effect on their existence, and I’m sure if the child doesn’t want to identify as male anymore, they will feel glad their parents were there to support them with whatever life decisions that might be made. And then if this issue does persist, these parents could have spared this child many years of depression, fear and confusion.
Most places do not go by chromosomes for their answers. Most go by genitalia. There are many factors that conclude someone’s sex. Hormones, Gonads, Genitalia, and Chromosomes. Look up the stats on people that are actually born with different variations of xy or just a single x. Many people are born intersex or have some kind of hormone imbalance that goes unnoticed. These things effect the way your brain is wired. BUT just because you are transgender… it doesn’t mean you want to change your sex. It is an umbrella term. Some people just change their gender. Sex and gender are two different things. If you met me on the street you would probably thing I was the most logical person you’ve ever met. Then you’d find out I was trans and then realize what the fuss is all about. As logical as I am and as much as I do to try to find the answers of WHY am I this way. I have no damn clue. It doesn’t really matter either. This is what makes me feel right. I wish I didn’t have to go through all the extra crap I do to have to feel ‘normal’ but I do. Why do people give 2 shits?
Where did you all learn this nonsense that gender is a “social construct.” My oh my what silliness. This poor little girl is going to one day start her period, start growing a bosom and get all moody. Sorry, programmed in the DNA. Then what kind of confusion will descend upon this poor child? I totally relate to all the women here who were doll-less, hard playing tomboys in cowboy suit and boy cut. Me too! But my parents never said, “Oh honey, you think you are a boy? Okay, fine, it’s just a social construct.” And even if they had, there was that major life change at 12 years old to slap me right in my cute little face.
@ Joan
“Where did you all learn this nonsense that gender is a “social construct.” My oh my what silliness.”
Isn’t it extraordinary? Part of the problem is that the promoters of this insanity have completely separated the terms “sex” and ‘gender”. From what I can decipher of this lunacy, sex is the physical body and gender has something to do with emotions and preferences in superficial things like clothes or hairstyles or activities. That’s why we have nonsense like this, where little girls may like tomboy type things and so this means they can self identify as a male even though biology says they are and always will be female.
It’s insanity. That’s all it is. Delusions and mental illness.
Why would he be confused? He knows what his medical condition is.
And we get these crazy ideas about sex and gender from the people who spend their lives studying the topic. It’s just a fact that they refer to different things.
Joan, gender rules of behavior, etc., is dictated by society; that is why it is a social construct. Gender does not come from nature along with the biological sex; it is a layer placed upon each individual based on their biological sex.
I am glad you had a grandmother who didn’t enforce the gender code and allowed you to feel yourself in whatever outfit or mannerism of choice growing up.
http://hueconsulting.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-is-blue-for-boys-and-pink-for-girls.html
By the way, why call yourself a tomboy? You prove to me that all manners of dressing and acting in the world fall within the domain of womanhood.
@ mo
“Where did you all learn this nonsense that gender is a “social construct.” My oh my what silliness.”
Read more at http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/06/03/this-poor-child-is-confused-not-transgendered/#0HFSS2fKRmOBrpXa.99
This old woman who no longer gets her menses is a biological female. That is, I am of the female sex.
Gender is a social construct–a tool constructed by the patriarchy to impose upon individuals prescribed modes of behaving, choosing a profession and color. The behavioral requirements for individuals of the male and female have changed over time and vary greatly between cultures and races.
For example, use of pink for girls and blue for boys is a recent addition to the gender code.
http://hueconsulting.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-is-blue-for-boys-and-pink-for-girls.html
http://hueconsulting.blogspot.com/2007/03/why-is-blue-for-boys-and-pink-for-girls.html
Nonsense. We’re not talking about superficial preferences. Whether you like sports or a certain color doesn’t make you male or female. I’m female, but I hate things like cooking and chick-flicks and other stereotypical “female” things. But never have I been confused about whether I’m a woman or not.
We’re talking about the INHERENT DIFFERENCES between males and females that go way beyond physical and beyond superficial things as well.
If you are talking about sex, you are talking about the inherent differences. If you are talking about gender you are talking about the superficial aspects. That’s the difference, they each refer to very real, different things.
Mo, can you be a little bit more specific? Are we talking, perhaps, about the feminist-old question, “Is it nature, or is it nurture?” I enjoy breaking sex roles.
Ivibug, I agree with your definition.
Important to listen to a child who is crying out for help when transgendered. The brain knows!!