I am a biological terrorist because my kids didn’t get a vaccine

Yesterday my wife took the twins to the doctor for a checkup. They wanted to start our babies on their “vaccination schedule,” but, oddly, our schedule differs slightly from the one predetermined by the medical establishment. I’m not against all vaccines, but I am strongly opposed to the idea of blindly handing our babies over to the nurse and saying, “Here! Pump whatever chemicals you want into them. I’ll be in the lobby reading a Highlights magazine, give me a holler when it’s over.” In other words, vaccinating is a conscious decision that my wife and I wish to make, not one with which we will passively cooperate.

That said, one of the vaccines we chose to forgo is the Hepatitis B immunization. I mentioned that on Friday’s show and it elicited many responses from folks who are, apparently, quite offended that we didn’t consult with them before making a choice about our children’s medical treatment. You know, all parenting decisions you make these days must be debated in front of the People’s Peanut Gallery, where the verdicts are swift and harsh. Here’s one email I received, it’s an apt representation of several other similar messages:

Matt,

Your conspiracy theories about vaccinations would make me laugh if they weren’t so infuriating. If you don’t get your children vaccinated for Hepatitis B or any other disease, YOU PUT EVERYONE AT RISK JACKASS. I get so sick of you antivaccination retards. Society gets rid of diseases when everyone comes together and vaccinates. I don’t want my child to get sick just because you don’t understand science. There are many ways to get Hep B and people get it all the time without have sex aand you’ve now put your child at risk for it which puts everyone at risk. Moron. Get them vaccinatedstop being stupid. You are a horrible parent and you’re putting your kids at risk idiot.

- Kevin

Against my better judgment, I responded to Kevin. I’m posting it here as a general response to all of the other Kevins of the world.

Dear Kevin,

I’m not a conspiracy theorist — I’m a conspirator. You see, about a year ago my wife and I conspired to conceive children. I won’t go into detail about the steps we took to bring this plot to fruition, but suffice it to say that our plan succeeded. Now, as the result of this dastardly scheme, we are “parents”. This parental title has dangerous implications; it gives us the terrifying ability to do all sorts of things. For instance, most horrifically, we can make decisions about our kids’ well being and health care without conferring with the public, the government, the community, society, or even you.

Also, we are able to forgo vaccinations so that we can turn our children into biological weapons, which is the clear intention of anyone who doesn’t keep their kids “up to date” on their shots.

Other than that, I’m not sure what conspiracy you’re referring to. When I speak of the potential adverse side effects of the Hep B vaccine, or the studies linking it to liver and brain damage, or the obvious risks involved anytime you inject disease-causing organisms into the body of a small child, I am not proposing a “conspiracy,” nor am I theorizing anything. I am not a “no vaccines at all” type of person, but I don’t think you’re in a position to ridicule those folks if you’re in the “any and every vaccine is automatically OK with me, and I’ll let the doctors give it to my child without doing any research about it beforehand” camp.

I don’t judge you for falling in line and following the trends — even when the trend involves introducing potentially dangerous chemicals to the undeveloped immune system of your infant children — but I do lament how your sort tends to lash out mindlessly at anyone who strays from the “normal” path. When I call your behavior “mindless,” I don’t mean it as an insult. I mean it as an observation. After all, there certainly isn’t anything thoughtful or rational in shouting about how your child is directly at risk of contracting an STD because my kids didn’t get a vaccine.

Hepatitis B is, in fact, primarily a sexually transmitted disease. In most cases, you contract it by making unhealthy lifestyle choices. I notice that, in your world, our “society” should work to eradicate illnesses by turning our babies into lab rats, rather than by telling adults to stop making foolish and destructive decisions. Why do you yell at my family for choosing to forgo an unnecessary medical treatment that would expose my children to high levels of aluminum, and not at the legions of people who refuse to forgo promiscuous sex and intravenous drugs? I have to be honest, I’m somewhat disturbed by the implication that all of our children are budding drug addicts and philanderers, so we ought to immunize them in anticipation of this eventuality.

There are other ways to get this virus, I grant you. Prison guards who have fecal matter and urine hurled at their faces all day are in a high risk category. Folks who work in hospitals are logically required to be vaccinated. A child whose mother has the disease can, unfortunately, contract it. You hear about rare cases of patients in hospitals coming out of a medical procedure or blood transfusion with Hepatitis B, but then again, if you can’t trust your doctor to give you blood that isn’t tainted with a chronic illness, you probably shouldn’t trust him to give shots to your baby. If you do a lot of traveling in third world countries, that will likely increase your Hep B chances as well.

But it’s simply ridiculous to assume that every human being in the country has an equal shot at becoming Hep B positive. You’re at risk if you put yourself in, or are put in, a risky situation. Plain and simple. Even the CDC — hardly a bastion of anti-vaccination propaganda — has to go to extraordinary lengths to explain how the average baby might come down with a dangerous STD. Their “Hepatitis B fact sheet” tells us the virus is spread to children when their mother is infected, or when they are bitten by an infected person. They also list “eating food chewed by an infected person” and “sharing a toothbrush with an infected person.”

Let’s break these down, shall we? We’ve already covered the infected mother scenario. My wife doesn’t have Hepatitis B, not that it’s any of your business. I’m not sure if your kid typically eats food chewed by strangers, but my children are under a strict “only you chew your food” rule. I think it’s pretty easy to avoid sharing a toothbrush with a Hepatitis B carrier, in fact it’s easy to avoid sharing a tooth brush with anyone. As for being gnawed on by a sick person, how often do you think a child gets Hepatitis that way? Now contrast that likelihood with the chance of suffering an adverse reaction to the vaccine, and tell me which is cause for greater concern?

You may dispute the link between vaccines and autism, or vaccines and SIDS, but you can’t dispute the non-debatable link between risky decisions and diseases like Hepatitis B. You’re exposed to Hep B if you put yourself in a compromising situation, and usually that involves having random sex or using hardcore drugs. As far as I know, nobody has ever been crossing the street on some random morning only to be suddenly run over by a Hepatitis B truck. There’s nothing especially surprising about Hepatitis B and how it’s spread.

For the record, despite my stance on the vaccine, I am actually very intent on preventing my kids from getting Hepatitis. But my prevention strategy involves raising them and teaching them not to make horribly self destructive decisions. Outside of that, if they grow up and decide they’d like to work in a hospital or a prison, or they sign up for a mission trip to Ethiopia, then it might be time to talk about expanding their “vaccination schedule.”

Kevin, let me do you a favor and give you a tip for the next time you decide to valiantly defend the honor of prescription drug companies and their miraculous vaccines: If you want to convince people like me — that is, people who aren’t terribly worried about gaining the approval of the peanut gallery — you best abandon the “get vaccines for the sake of the collective” argument. Call me selfish or narcissistic, but I don’t parent my children based on what I think my neighbors might want me to do. Parenting isn’t a democracy. It isn’t up for a vote. Never in a thousand years would I force my children to undergo a medical procedure simply for the sake of being a cultural team player. If you see it that way, please email me the next time you take your kid to the orthodontist. I’m going to need a vote before you make any decisions about braces or retainers.

There are many factors that have contributed to this special brand of lunacy where we pretend that chronic illnesses like Hepatitis B can’t be easily avoided by adjusting our lifestyles and making healthy choices, but I think intellectual laziness and cowardice play a significant part. It’s the same thing that entices health teachers and politicians to make the maniacal claim that HIV is an “equal opportunity disease.” We’re deathly afraid of coming anywhere near anything that might be construed as — GASP! — moralizing. Instead we go around babbling about how everything impacts everyone in the same way, and our own decisions are never to blame when bad things happen.

You called me a bad parent, so I guess this is the part where I’m supposed to stick my tongue out and call you a bad parent in return, and then we can spend the next 45 minutes shooting spitballs at each other in the back of the classroom. But I don’t want to play that game because, for all I know, you’re a great parent. I’m not a big fan of your communication skills, nor do I find you to be the most critical of thinkers, and I’m not particularly inspired by your grammar and sentence structure, but I’m betting you still love your children and strive to do what you think is best for them. If that includes getting your infants immunized against STDs, then Godspeed. I don’t have a say in the matter, and I pray that it stays that way. My only very humble suggestion is that you MAKE the DECISIONS, instead of “going along with it” because the doctor will give you a dirty look if you don’t.

Also, as a general rule, always proofread when you want to call someone else an idiot.

God bless,

Matt

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1,714 Responses to I am a biological terrorist because my kids didn’t get a vaccine

  1. Piemel says:

    Last month 1 or 2 kids died because their parents refused to vaccinate them… assuming you love your kids, it is a dick move not vaccinating yout kids and risking them getting the disease and dying, just because you think it’s bad to get them… Which is bullshit anyway… So, unless you hate your kids and hope your kids die painully and slowly all because of you, i hope you feel bad about yourself now, and go and vaccinate your kids.

    You’re welcome for saving your kids from you ;)

    • Don't ever vaccinate!!! says:

      Details? Maybe they didn’t receive the treatment they needed. It is very rare to actually die from any of these diseases in this day in age and with all the technological and medical advances we have made. I highly doubt that the diseases alone caused them. A quick search into the diseases, the chance of contracting them, and the chances of dying of them are statistically less than getting a vaccine injury, especially when taking ther I don’t know multiple times with vaccination, with the disease it’s one chance and you still have a. 20% chance or more of contracting the disease you were vaccinated agains, and more of a chance of contracting the b. Pertussis if you received the pertussis. Statistically speaking, you are wrong! And with no other details, cause I can list many more that died of adverse reactions, this is a very arbitrary comment.

      • riandouglas says:

        A quick search into the diseases, the chance of contracting them, and the chances of dying of them are statistically less than getting a vaccine injury
        Another completely bogus stat I’d wager – I don’t suppose you’d care to back that up with evidence?

        And with no other details, cause I can list many more that died of adverse reactions, this is a very arbitrary comment.
        Can you demonstrate that the adverse reactions are worse than the whooping cough?

        Since you’ve failed to provide any reasonable details in the past, I can only assume your claims here will remain similarly unsupported.

      • riandouglas says:

        Just tracked down some stats on whooping cough in the US:

        For infants less than 3 months of age, 23 died in 2004, 32 in 2005, 12 in 2006, 9 in 2007 16 in 2008 for a total of 92.
        For infants greater than 3 months of age 4 died in 2004, 7 died in 2005, 5 died in 2006, 2 died in 2007, 2 died in 2008.

        That’s a total of 111 deaths over those years.
        Here’s a study which indicates that invaccinated children are more susceptible to infection – “Parental Refusal of Pertussis Vaccination Is Associated With an Increased Risk of Pertussis Infection in Children”
        “CONCLUSIONS. Children of parents who refuse pertussis immunizations are at high risk for pertussis infection relative to vaccinated children. Herd immunity does not seem to completely protect unvaccinated children from pertussis. These findings stress the need to further understand why parents refuse immunizations and to develop strategies for conveying the risks and benefits of immunizations to parents more effectively.”

        Here’s another study which links pockets of unvaccinated children with an outbreak of pertussis – “Nonmedical Vaccine Exemptions and Pertussis in California, 2010″
        “RESULTS: Kulldorff’s scan statistics identified 39 statistically significant clusters of high NME rates and 2 statistically significant clusters of pertussis cases in this time period. Census tracts within an exemptions cluster were 2.5 times more likely to be in a pertussis cluster (odds ratio = 2.47, 95% confidence interval: 2.22–2.75). More cases occurred within as compared with outside exemptions clusters (incident rate ratios = 1.20, 95% confidence interval: 1.10–1.30). The association remained significant after adjustment for demographic factors. NMEs clustered spatially and were associated with clusters of pertussis cases.

        CONCLUSIONS: Our data suggest clustering of NMEs may have been 1 of several factors in the 2010 California pertussis resurgence.”

        Not vaccinating increases your risk of catching the disease, increases the risk of dying from the disease, and is linked to an increase in the size and severity of outbreaks.

        • Anthony Davis says:

          J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2008 Mar;121(3):626-31. doi: 10.1016/j.jaci.2007.11.034. Epub 2008 Jan 18. Delay in diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus vaccination is associated with a reduced risk of childhood asthma. McDonald KL, Huq SI, Lix LM, Becker AB, Kozyrskyj AL. Source Faculty of Medicine, Department of Community Health Sciences, University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. Abstract BACKGROUND: Early childhood immunizations have been viewed as promoters of asthma development by stimulating a T(H)2-type immune response or decreasing microbial pressure, which shifts the balance between T(H)1 and T(H)2 immunity. OBJECTIVE: Differing time schedules for childhood immunizations may explain the discrepant findings of an association with asthma reported in observational studies. This research was undertaken to determine whether timing of diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus (DPT) immunization has an effect on the development of childhood asthma by age 7 years. METHODS: This was a retrospective longitudinal study of a cohort of children born in Manitoba in 1995. The complete immunization and health care records of cohort children from birth until age 7 years were available for analysis. The adjusted odds ratio for asthma at age 7 years according to timing of DPT immunization was computed from multivariable logistic regression. RESULTS: Among 11, 531 children who received at least 4 doses of DPT, the risk of asthma was reduced to (1/2) in children whose first dose of DPT was delayed by more than 2 months. The likelihood of asthma in children with delays in all 3 doses was 0.39 (95% CI, 0.18-0.86). CONCLUSION: We found a negative association between delay in administration of the first dose of whole-cell DPT immunization in childhood and the development of asthma; the association was greater with delays in all of the first 3 doses. The mechanism for this phenomenon requires further research.

      • riandouglas says:

        Thanks for the citation Anthony.
        Interesting study, though I can’t track down the full text to see the results themselves, and the abstract on pubmed doesn’t indicate what the actual statistics are. It suggests that the current vaccine schedule may need tweaking to avoid increased risk of asthma (though the risk is also decreased with increased childhood infections, but I don’t think anyone would advocate abandoning good hygiene).
        There would need to to be follow up studies to ensure these results are solid, and to suggest what changes (if any) to the vaccine schedule should be made.

      • Megan says:

        Being from Winnipeg… I can tell you that no one receives the DTap-IPV-Hib vaccine prior to 2 months anyway… the schedule is 2, 4, 6 and 18 months for this vaccine in Canada.

    • punkin says:

      Everyone who has replies like yourself I realize are uneducated fools. I feel more sorry for your children to have an ignorant unkind, uneducated parent like YOU. No manners, just another part of the sheeple flock

    • Piemel, you said:
      ["Last month 1 or 2 kids died because their parents refused to vaccinate them… "]

      Hmmmmm, that means that up to 24 kids might die next year if they don’t get vaccinated… aw heck let’s REALLY panic and double that…

      Perhaps you ought to check out this link to see how many kids have died AS A DIRECT RESULT OF VACCINATING in the past year: http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/data

      You also said:
      ["So, unless you hate your kids and hope your kids die painully and slowly all because of you, i hope you feel bad about yourself now, and go and vaccinate your kids.
      You’re welcome for saving your kids from you ;)]

      First of all…. Please tell us what “painully” means…. or did you mean to say painfully?

      Otherwise to this last part of your comment I say:
      So, unless you are willing to do YOUR OWN research to make absolutely certain that you are making the absolute BEST decisions concerning your children’s health and welfare, you are in no position to pass judgement on the author of this blog.

      I would NEVER accuse you of being a bad parent, I don’t know you and I would be out of line to do so. I would NEVER accuse you of hating your kids or of hoping that they die painfully and slowly, because, well, that’s just straight out an ugly and hateful thing to to do. I also would NEVER hope that you feel *badly* about yourself for the choices you make for your children, because as parents our greatest goal is to do everything we can, within our power and knowledge, to protect our children and keep them safe and I have no doubt whatsoever that you fulfill that goal to the best of your ability.

      That said… when we KNOW better…. due to sacrificing our OWN time and energy to doing our OWN personal research, so that we may educate our OWN selves, instead of simply and blindly trusting others to tell us what choices to make for our children… we DO better.

      BTW, You’re welcome for returning the favor

      • riandouglas says:

        Hmmmmm, that means that up to 24 kids might die next year if they don’t get vaccinated… aw heck let’s REALLY panic and double that…

        How many deaths are acceptable?
        Would you feel the same if one of those 24 kids was your own?

        That said… when we KNOW better…. due to sacrificing our OWN time and energy to doing our OWN personal research, so that we may educate our OWN selves, instead of simply and blindly trusting others to tell us what choices to make for our children… we DO better.

        If this research has led you to an anti-vax position, then it is time and energy wasted. The evidence does not support that position.

    • My$0.02 says:

      Good for you Matt!
      We did the same thing, delayed as much as possible, made sure vaccines did not contain Theramisol, and never gave more than 2 at the same time.
      Vaccinations are all about making money, not your health.

      • riandouglas says:

        Why did you avoid thimerisol?
        You realise that childhood vaccines haven’t contained that since ~2000?
        You realise that there is no solid evidence supporting thimerisol vaccines being dangerous?

    • angelina says:

      A child also died last month from over vaccination …. The infant contracted meningitis from the meningitis shot and died …. so your argument is invalid.

      • riandouglas says:

        This cannot happen – the Meningococcal vaccine does not contain any meningococcal bacteria, not even attenuated. It is not a live vaccine.

        Perhaps you could provide a reference to support this otherwise ridiculous seeming claim.

    • danny says:

      I guess you didn’t read the article. Painful to see the lack of reading and comprehension skill

  2. Jonestown Punch says:

    Piemel…

    “Last month 1 or 2 kids died because their parents refused to vaccinate them… assuming you love your kids, it is a dick move not vaccinating yout kids and risking them getting the disease and dying, just because you think it’s bad to get them… Which is bullshit anyway… So, unless you hate your kids and hope your kids die painully and slowly all because of you, i hope you feel bad about yourself now, and go and vaccinate your kids.”

    I love my children very much; to suggest a parent who has educated themselves on the realities behind the vaccination push by big pharma in N.America would hate their children is ludicrous. This isn’t about love or hate, it is about education and ignorance.

    I would normally ask the poster to back up their claim with a specific study or reasonable evidence to support their position, but in your case it doesn’t seem worth it.

    And unfortunately, your ignorance falls directly in line with the majority who don’t research issues for themselves and trust whatever is presented to them via TV, Mainstream Media or by an authority figure as fact.

    Here is a disturbing headline from Kashmir November 12th, where 8 infants died this September and October after being administered the ’5 in 1′ vaccination, you wont find this on your six o’clock news…

    “It needs to be mentioned that such allergic responses to this pentavalent vaccine, including deaths, have been reported also from Kerala, Tamil Nadu, as well as from Bhutan, Vietnam, and Sri Lanka. It had been discontinued in Vietnam in May for these reasons and was re-started in October, following which adverse reactions were once again reported. It is being used largely in several developing countries only and is not licensed for use in the USA by the US FDA. This vaccine is being promoted vigorously by several international agencies, specifically World Health Organization (WHO) and the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization (GAVI), an international network of vaccine manufacturers and philanthropic organizations such as Gates Foundation.”

    http://www.pudr.org/?q=content/adverse-events-following-pentavalent-vaccination-kashmir

    http://www.omsj.org/corruption/penta22jul

  3. Jonestown Punch says:

    “CONCLUSIONS: Our data suggest clustering of NMEs may have been 1 of several factors in the 2010 California pertussis resurgence.”

    Their data ‘suggests’ clustering ‘may’ have been ’1 of several’ factors…right. If this conclusion was given to a study supporting the need to investigate vaccinations and the industry in general, you bet ‘riandouglas’ would be all over it like flies on shit. The reality of course is that this is not a conclusion by virtue of its very statement.

    ‘There would need to to be follow up studies to ensure these results are solid, and to suggest what changes (if any) to the vaccine schedule should be made.’

    Agreed, lots of studies need to be completed, more research done and more independent 3rd party analysis of the information. Open debate needs to happen, in front of the public, not behind closed doors. That’s what we are saying, that is what we are fighting for, that is why we spend our time researching this polarizing subject. Then we have to ask ourselves why the pharmaceutical lobby, and their proponents, believe the case is closed and would prefer no more debate or studies take place?

    As it is, we have a corrupt and broken system hell bent on profiting from vaccinating whoever they can get their needles in. This system spends billions of dollars annually providing people with ‘information’ that ensures healthy profits. Show me one, just one case where a large pharmaceutical company confessed, on their own without being dragged to court, to injuring or killing people with untested or otherwise unsafe medical drugs. Yet we have literally thousands of lawsuits against them – you tell me, do pharmaceutical companies care for people or profit?

    http://www.wellbeingjournal.com/profits-not-science-motivate-vaccine-mandates/

    • riandouglas says:

      If this conclusion was given to a study supporting the need to investigate vaccinations and the industry in general, you bet ‘riandouglas’ would be all over it like flies on shit.
      Sounds like you haven’t read many of my comments, since I have been critical of the industry in general, as the evidence indicates we should be.
      I’ve also not relied upon statements like this in my analysis of anti-vax papers which I’ve commented on.

      Then we have to ask ourselves why the pharmaceutical lobby, and their proponents, believe the case is closed and would prefer no more debate or studies take place?
      Mostly because the evidence supporting vaccines generally is overwhelming and of good quality, while the evidence against this position is smaller and of lower quality.

      you tell me, do pharmaceutical companies care for people or profit?
      You tell me – do pharmaceutical researchers care about people or profit?
      Since they don’t tend to make much money, and could likely make much more in another profession, the answer seems obvious :-)

    • riandouglas says:

      PS. your linked reference also promotes homeopathy within it’s pages. Homeopathy doesn’t work and contradicts basic science.
      That makes your source rather suspect.

      • JC says:

        Homeopathy is hardly suspect. It’s the exact thing that has kept my unvaccinated children incredibly healthy and strong. I understand we all make different choices but since you haven’t lived on this side of the fence you really don’t have an accurate lense to look through in my opinion. Is it so hard to fathom that the pharmaceutical companies lie for profit? Go back in history and see who hold the purse strings. While intentions may be good in wanting to keep people safe, it’s back firing and we have a world full of toxic bodies that are being killed by the drugs they take and the food they are being given. All I ask is that you entertain the idea that the possibility of living a strong healthy life vaccine free exists. My children are prime examples. They are 13 and 16 years old. Never taken antibiotics once in their life and have had all the same “colds” as any other kid that’s pediatrician automatically gives antibiotics for. My kids have only ever taken homeopathics and have healed amazingly fast. My son at age 12 contracted Mono and was over it in 10 days, start to finish due to homeopathics. He also had his very first sore throat at age 10 only to find out it was strep- within 24 hours it was gone with homeopathics. Please be willing to see another approach as viable even if you choose a different route for yourself and your children. I love my kids and feel I have made the best choice for them by not infecting them with chemicals. And…I am always open to changing my mind if need be, but luckily so far I haven’t had to.

        • Don't ever vaccinate!!! says:

          http://www.globaliamagazine.com/?id=1119. A very interesting article. I’ve also read, and you could probably google it and find it, how the current allopathic models was put in place to replace homeopathy by he Rockefellers, since homeopathy was actually the only practice of medicine beforehand, and that a concerted disinformation campaign ensued for profits through organizations that were to create students for the new medical schools, sell pharmaceuticals, and basically support this sick care industry, focusing on symptoms instead of cures. From a business perspective it’s absolutely brilliant. Unfortunately it doesn’t work since it’s actually the third largest cause of death in the US today. I have also experienced first had how homeopathy has healed me and my family and it is my first go-to medicine of choice. Since then we have rarely if ever seen doctors.

      • KH says:

        I came across this site looking for a reference for a paper I am writing about vaccinations in my English class. I was raised by a mother that was very pro-homeopathic remedies, she was also pro-vaccinations. Mind you I am an 80′s baby, so there was a very limited debate on the subject of vaccinations at that time. I think this is because Polio was still in the minds of the people, which is not the case anymore (*cough* thank you vaccines *cough*).
        That being said, there are some homeopathic remedies that are “harmless” on their own. As a whole on the other hand, they can create a problem where people become overly reliant on them and this can lead to diseases getting far worse than they have to. There was a case recently of a mother who relied purely on homeopathy for her child who had (i think) strep, and the son died at the age of 9. One trip to a doctor could have saved that child’s life. I am completely pro people making their own choices, but as a parent myself I would not and could not watch my child be sick, and stay sick to a point where they get worse and die.
        Now back onto the topic of vaccines. I was born with Hep B, because my mom contracted it at some point while she was in her military life. Do I blame her, not at all, because we had even less public knowledge than we do now on diseases. Do I wish I didn’t have a disease floating in my liver allowing me to live, on average, till the age of 55… every day. I MIGHT make it to retirement to enjoy life after work, but my odds would be much better if I didn’t have this disease. (BTW, average life span for getting Hep B after birth is 35 last I checked).
        Because of my Hep B I am definitely vaccinating my children, and I really wish others would do the same so I don’t put them at risk. Every cut I get, I take care to make sure no one gets involved but me, but shit happens and I don’t want to be responsible for doing that to someone.

        • Don't vaccinate!!! EVER!!!! says:

          There are known side effects to the Hepatitis B vaccine. I am not in a high risk group for infection, nor am I infected. and neither are my children. If I was infected, then the shot would not prove beneficial either since the disease has already been acquired, unless the baby has not acquired it yet, it would put said baby in high risk group therefore use of vaccine may be prudent in these cases only. Here are some of the risks of vaccination, which I have followed with risks of disease: “Hospitals routinely give newborns a hepatitis B injection shortly after birth. This vaccine contains brain and nerve damaging ingredients, including aluminum hydroxide. (Aluminum has been linked to Alzheimer’s.)
          After many vaccinated newborns died and thousands suffered serious side effects, including seizures and permanent brain damage, the dangers of the hepatitis B vaccine were brought to the public’s attention by ABC’s 20/20 in 1999.
          Since 1991, the hepatitis B vaccine has been responsible for, over 25,000 adverse reactions including hundreds of deaths, according to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
          The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) has called for a moratorium on mandatory hepatitis B vaccination for children, pending independent scientific research.
          AAPS says the risk of a serious reaction to the hepatitis B vaccine is 100 times greater than the risk of the disease–which is usually transmitted through blood, shared needles and “multiple sex partners.”
          ( We would hope a newborn would be considered extremely low risk for contracting hepatitis B infection through multiple sex partners !!!! )”
          Here are some facts on Hepatitis B: “About 95 per cent of adults who become infected with hepatitis B will clear the infection by themselves and require no ongoing treatment.
          Babies and children who are infected are more likely than adults to develop chronic hepatitis B. This occurs more commonly in some population groups because they have higher rates of chronic hepatitis B. These population groups include people from China, South East Asia, the Pacific Islands, sub-Saharan Africa and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders.
          How is hepatitis B spread?
          Hepatitis B is a blood-borne virus, which can be sexually transmitted.
          In people with hepatitis B, the virus can be found in the blood (or serum) and to a lesser degree in their body fluids such as semen or vaginal secretions.
          Hepatitis B can be spread following exposure of non-intact skin (open cuts) or mucous membranes (such as the genital tract) to infected blood or, less efficiently, after exposure to infected body fluids.
          Blood
          The hepatitis B virus is present in the blood of an infected person. If infected blood enters another person’s blood stream, that person may become infected.
          The disease can be spread by:
          Sharing equipment used for injecting drugs.
          Piercing the skin with equipment which is not properly cleaned and sterilised.
          Sharing razor blades or toothbrushes.
          One person’s blood coming into contact with open cuts on another person.
          People who receive blood transfusions in Australia have a very low risk of getting hepatitis B. The Australian Red Cross Blood Service currently estimates this risk as approximately 1 in 739,000 (see transfusion.com.au for further information).
          Sex
          The hepatitis B virus can be spread if people have unprotected sexual intercourse, especially if there is blood present.
          Mother to Baby
          Mothers who have chronic hepatitis B sometimes pass the virus to their children. Some babies are infected during birth or shortly after birth. In Australia newborn babies are quickly immunised to protect them from infection.”

        • romulus says:

          KH, you are wrong. There was plenty of discussion about vaccination back in the 1980s. After the swine flu fiasco of 1976, lawsuits galore were filed in civil courts against drug companies to the point that only two drug companies in the US were still making vaccines. So these two drug companies went and asked Congress to immunize them against liability for their unavoidably unsafe products that are mandated in every state of the Union to be given to children.

          You may also want to do a little research on the origins of hepatitis B. You will not want to go near a vaccine for yourself or your own children if you educate yourself on that fine point.

          When you are done with that, look up the origins of hepatitis C.

        • riandouglas says:

          Romulus, you’re mistaken.

          The vaccine court doesn’t insulate vaccine manufacturers from liability. What it does is present those claiming vaccine injury with a means to gain compensation without shouldering the strong burden of proof required in a regular court of law. You can still pursue legal action against a pharma company in regular court.

          As for the origins of HepB, it seems that’s it’s been with us as long as we’ve been humans.
          The paper “Dating the origin and dispersal of hepatitis B virus infection in humans and primates.” takes a look at the genetics of the various strains of the HepB virus, and finds that the diversity is consistent with dispersal of human populations across the world.
          This article refers to a paper which indicates that the ancestor of todays modern HepB was around when dinosaurs roamed the earth.
          What relationship is there between this seemingly ancient virus and relatively recent vaccination?
          The same goes for HepC virus.

      • riandouglas says:

        JC: Homeopathy is hardly suspect.
        Homeopathy is nothing but water. Water is essential but doesn’t really have any disease fighting potential, therefore homeopathy doesn’t have any disease fighting potential.

        JC: It’s the exact thing that has kept my unvaccinated children incredibly healthy and strong
        Since homeopathy is nothing more than a palcebo, what has kept your children healthy is luck and circumstance (and possibly good genes). Homeopathy is not more responsible for your childrens good health than was your choice of clothing yesterday.

        JC: Is it so hard to fathom that the pharmaceutical companies lie for profit?
        Whether true or not, this has no bearing on whether homeopathy works.

        JC: All I ask is that you entertain the idea that the possibility of living a strong healthy life vaccine free exists.
        I’ve never said it wasn’t a possibility. What I have repeated stated is that the possibility of doing so unvaccinated is lower than doing so vaccinated.

        JC: Never taken antibiotics once in their life and have had all the same “colds” as any other kid that’s pediatrician automatically gives antibiotics for.
        If the pediatrician is prescribing anti-biotics, which fight bacteria, for a viral infection like a cold, then the pediatrician is prescribing a placebo.
        Perhaps you didn’t realise that antibiotics were useless against viral infections.

        JC: My kids have only ever taken homeopathics and have healed amazingly fast.
        All kids take water (though some don’t take enough of it). All kids heal “amazingly fast” – it’s a benefit of being young. The homeopathics they’ve taken have had absolutely nothing to do with that – in fact CANNOT have anything to do with that, since homeopathy is nothing but placebo medicine.

        JC: He also had his very first sore throat at age 10 only to find out it was strep- within 24 hours it was gone with homeopathics.
        How was it diagnosed as Strep Throat?
        How do you know the homeopathics (ie. drinking water) had anything to do with the seemingly rapid resolution of this?
        How do you know the resolution was not the normal course of the infection/disease?

        JC: I love my kids and feel I have made the best choice for them by not infecting them with chemicals.
        Chemicals are not infectious agents.

        And…I am always open to changing my mind if need be, but luckily so far I haven’t had to.
        So you think, on the basis of very poor data (your anecdotes) that homeopathy works, but refuse to accept the solidly attested scientific evidence which strongly supports the use of vaccines in the prevention of disease, or the use of antibiotics for controlling bacterial infections?

        And you don’t seem to have a problem with the extreme double standard you apply. I really hope your children remain healthy and do not acquire a life threatening illness, as it sounds like you are unlikely to seek effective treatment.

      • riandouglas says:

        DVE, has the aluminium hydroxide in vaccines been linked to altzheimers?
        No it has not.
        Are the complications which actually result from (rather than merely being correlated with) the HepB vaccination common or very rare?
        Very rare.
        Is HepB very serious if contracted during infancy?
        Yes it is – 90% develop serious complications from the disease (as the previous commenter made clear from their own experience).

        You still completely fail to conduct any sort of cost/benefit analysis of vaccination.
        For some reason you accept homeopathy as legitimate when it has no solid clinical evidence, and yet you reject vaccination, which has very solid clinical evidence.

        You exercise a double standard in what you require with regards to evidence.

  4. Christina says:

    To the comment above if over the course of 4 years there were 111 deaths in the US thats only .0000035361% of the population. Thats hardley an epidemic. You take the risks your willing to take, and I will pick mine. Lifes risky, bad things happen, everybody dies eventually.

    • Some Guy says:

      It’s not about you. It’s about vulnerable populations. You are choosing to put others at risk. You do not have that right.

      • Don't ever vaccinate!!! says:

        Of course she and everybody has the right to forgo vaccines, especially when the parent assumes all the risk and the doctors and pharmaceutical companies have immunized themselves from any lawsuits. All these diseases have asymptomatic symptoms and since at best vaccines work 80% and wane over time then you have a 20% + population in the ages that get vaccinated and almost 100% chance in the other age groups that may be caring and spreading these diseases at any time! So to say the less than 2% in most places in the US are putting the rest of the population at risk is idiotic. And also, you have to define the risk as well because each disease comes with different risks from the disease and from the vaccines as well. My fist son had an autoimmune disease therefore him and all other children I have are contraindicated to vaccines. Take the risk of the entire population, which the numbers are low to nonexistent for many of these diseases, and exercise basic precaution like frequent hand washing, good nutrition, and common sense regardless of vaccination status. At least that is the smart thing to do!

      • riandouglas says:

        and pharmaceutical companies have immunized themselves from any lawsuits.
        Yet there are links to NUMEROUS lawsuits against the pharmaceutical companies on this very blog post.

        So to say the less than 2% in most places in the US are putting the rest of the population at risk is idiotic.
        While anti-vaxxers like yourself make up only a small portion of the overall population, you also tend to be clustered together, which in fact DOES put those around you at greater risk.

        My fist son had an autoimmune disease therefore him and all other children I have are contraindicated to vaccines.
        Then you have a good reason NOT to vaccinate your children.
        You also have a good reason to want others TO vaccinate, in order to provide greater protection for your children from transmission of vaccine preventable diseases.

        and exercise basic precaution like frequent hand washing, good nutrition, and common sense regardless of vaccination status.
        Being vaccinated doesn’t prevent you from doing ANY of these things, and in fact, they’re still a good idea.
        But why live with increased risk associated with not being vaccinated, without good reason?

        At least that is the smart thing to do!
        The smart thing to do is to take basic precautions AND vaccinate.

      • riandouglas says:

        From a statistician the risk is actually almost none existent to the disease yet far more riskier with each shot
        From a financial adviser, one who appears to have absolutely no relevant
        A person who seems to have confused correlation with causation in his desire to find an explanation for the tragic death of his infant daughter. The linked article doesn’t seem to present any actual numbers, but rather the authors personal opinions.

        And yet you think this person, and this article are somehow authoritative, while rejecting the NUMEROUS contradictory points of view from the overwhelming majority of people who actually do have relevant expertise?

        Your double standard is showing again.

  5. mommywife says:

    Before I begin I’d like to give you some background on me. I am the parent of a child who was fully vaccinated. I’m admitting that, however, out of shame in my lack of preparation for the arrival of my baby boy. I should have researched each of these vaccinations before blindly following the masses and going along with medical treatments simply because “it’s standard”. Whose standard is it? Why and how did it become “the standard”? These are questions a good parent considers.
    The author of this post clearly states multiple times that he is not against all vaccinations. His post is specifically about the Hepatitis B vaccine, and every one of his points is valid: he does not forsee in the near future his twins having sex with random people, he does not see them becoming intraveinous drug users, he is raising them under a strict “always chew your own food policy”, and will ensure they always get their own toothbrushes… He has committed to all of these parental duties, and in doing so has, according to the CDC’s own guidelines on the disease, has reduced the risk of their exposure to the degree that the adverse risk outweighs any forseeable benefit.
    The poster also never stated anything about being against the Whooping Cough or Pertussis vaccinations so using those as a valid point of argument would assuredly be catastrophic for said argument unless your deducive ASSumption were true.
    Which leads me to my next observation: Why is it that when posing a debate you feel you have to reduce yourself with the inclusion of curse words and name-calling? Resorting to profanity in any argument only casts a spotlight on the fact that you have no real intelligent basis for your argument so you are being forced to resort to browbeating and bullying to “win” others to your side. How’s that working out for you?
    In regards to the argument that choosing not to vaccinate puts the entire community at risk: If you truly believed that there is merit to the argument that vaccinating is a measure taken to ensure public safety then you shouldn’t care whether or not I’m vaccinated because ,afterall, you ARE vaccinated so you are “protected”, right? The basis of this objection is unjustified by it’s primary claim. Man, don’t ya just hate it when those things happen and you’re forced to base your argument on fact rather than some moral, and therefore objective, foundation??
    And finally, most of us parents are not believers in the sacrificing of the few for the benefit of the many anyway. We see the fundamental (and spiritual) flaw in living a life rooted in that mindset. The individual matters. All 111 of those individuals (those cited as having died due to adverse vaccination reactions over a period of 5 years) mattered. Perhaps not to you, however, because they didn’t grow inside of you for nine months. They didn’t have your husband’s eyes. They weren’t your tangible hope for the future. …Their lives mattered, and no statistical fact you present can ever overshadow that.
    The sooner that we can stop buying into the idea that it is our government’s responsibility to raise our children, the sooner we can start taking that responsibility on for ourselves.

    • riandouglas says:

      If you truly believed that there is merit to the argument that vaccinating is a measure taken to ensure public safety then you shouldn’t care whether or not I’m vaccinated because ,afterall, you ARE vaccinated so you are “protected”, right?
      Vaccines are not 100% effective, and there are many who can’t or shouldn’t be vaccinated.
      So yes, there is still good reason to advocate YOU be vaccinated.
      Also, since we tend to be talking about children, YOU are making them accept an increased risk of illness, suffering, and even death. YOU are also increasing the risks of these things for OTHER PEOPLE.

      For some reason that doesn’t seem to have occurred to you.

      • rubylove1 says:

        It’s occurred to me and I chose not to vaccinate my children despite these risks you talk about for your vaccinated group. I feel you put my children at risk with all of this crazy toxic warfare that mainstream medicine promotes. But so what. That’s just my opinion and I do my best to live side by side with people like you that make different choices than I do. Look at what strains of viruses have come to pass because of the overuse of antibiotics. My children, 13 and 16 y.o., have never needed an antibiotic for anything yet if they did (I’m open to considering it in extreme cases. After all I wouldn’t go to my accupuncturist to set a broken bone) it may not work for them now because of these super viruses that have been created. Vaccinations were the quick way out of dealing with an issue that had deeper reasons for being. The pharmaceutical companies and big agra are in bed with each other in a way that is killing us more than saving us. I chose, consciously, to get off that crazy train on behalf of my children. If they want to vaccinate themselves when they are adults then they will be able to then make those decisions for themselves. We make decisions on behalf of our children everyday on practically every subject- this is not different.

      • riandouglas says:

        I feel you put my children at risk with all of this crazy toxic warfare that mainstream medicine promotes. But so what. That’s just my opinion and I do my best to live side by side with people like you that make different choices than I do.
        “Feelings” are not evidence.
        The evidence indicates that the unvaccinated DO put others at risk. That’s not just my opinion, that’s reality.

        Look at what strains of viruses have come to pass because of the overuse of antibiotics.
        Antibiotics work against bacteria, not virus’. This statement is completely ill informed.

        it may not work for them now because of these super viruses that have been created.
        “Super bacteria” you mean. And yes, they have resulted from over prescription of antibiotics, coupled with people NOT FOLLOWING the prescription (people tend to stop taking the anti-biotic when they start feeling better, rather than completing the full course, which leaves some bacteria alive which are likely to be somewhat resistant to the the antibiotic. Repeat that a lot, and the bacteria evolve to be completely resistant).

        I chose, consciously, to get off that crazy train on behalf of my children.
        You chose, consciously, on the basis of VERY POOR evidence.

        If they want to vaccinate themselves when they are adults then they will be able to then make those decisions for themselves.
        And when they do make those decisions I hope they follow where the evidence leads, rather than making the decision like you have.

        We make decisions on behalf of our children everyday on practically every subject- this is not different.
        We should make our decisions in light of the available evidence, not how we feel.
        When we make decisions for others, we have a responsibility to do this.
        You have failed in this responsibility, by making a decision without considering the evidence as it stands, and in making a decision which runs counter to what the evidence actually shows.

        I sincerely hope your children don’t contract an easily preventable disease.

    • riandouglas says:

      The sooner that we can stop buying into the idea that it is our government’s responsibility to raise our children, the sooner we can start taking that responsibility on for ourselves.
      Society, through government, has a duty to protect people who cannot protect themselves. People like children who are at the mercy of their parents, for instance.

      • Don't ever vaccinate!!! says:

        Another Eason why nothing you say matters ever. With the lobbying, money, and revolving door, as well as 9% approval rating of congress, it is a joke that you can even say ” society through government” when it’s clearly corporations through government. Nice propaganda piece though! And we are supposed to take you seriously… Hahahahahahahahaaaaaa

      • rubylove1 says:

        Then that would be true for raising them with ridiculous religious beliefs or subjecting them to poverty or anything. Where do you draw the line? You can’t blanketly give authority over to the government to protect us. Our world and ideas are too subjective for that. I for one do not want my life controlled anymore than it is by our government.

      • riandouglas says:

        DVE, I was talking about the responsibilities of Govt, not whether or not they discharge those responsibilities adequately.
        I understand that the Govt here in the US often fails in this regard.
        That doesn’t change the fact that Govt has that responsibility.

      • riandouglas says:

        Then that would be true for raising them with ridiculous religious beliefs or subjecting them to poverty or anything. Where do you draw the line?
        Harm. Whether physical, emotional, intellectual, or what have you. Both parents and Govt should have the child’s best interests in mind, and make decisions accordingly, using the best evidence available.

        You can’t blanketly give authority over to the government to protect us.

        Our world and ideas are too subjective for that. I for one do not want my life controlled anymore than it is by our government.
        Reality is objective. We can objectively assess politics far more than we currently do. Decisions like “is the world 6,000 years old” or “does vaccination lead to better health outcomes for individuals” can be objectively decided (No and Yes are the answers, respectively).
        Now, as an adult, I should be free to believe that the world IS in fact 6,000 years old, and that vaccines are deadly (as many here appear to do). What I should NOT be able to do is to force these opinion, which run contrary to the facts of the matter, on someone who is in my care (whether as a parent, a teacher, or some other position of authority). The government should step in when my forcing my opinion on someone puts them in harms way (as it does with regards to not vaccinating).

    • Kaylynn says:

      Totally agree, especially with the last part and I am not even a parent yet! I’m just educating and preparing myself so that when I am I’ll be able to make the best decisions :)

  6. Jonestown Punch says:

    I would urge all readers of this blog to watch this landmark congressional hearing on autism. It is refreshing to hear politicians and PhDs speaking together on the need to remove thiomerosal from vaccinations and to investigate the pharmaceutical industry and the policies put in place to protect them…

    • riandouglas says:

      It is refreshing to hear politicians and PhDs speaking together on the need to remove thiomerosal from vaccinations
      Thimerisol has been all but removed from ALL childhood vaccines. It has been since ~2000. There has been no corresponding drop in the rate of autism diagnosis.

      As links I presented earlier show, most if not all of the rise in autism can be attributes to expanded diagnostic criteria, increased awareness, social factors, etc.
      The amount of the increase which is “real” is small if not non-existent.

  7. ant says:

    In 1955, Cutter Laboratories was one of several companies licensed on April 12 by the United States government to produce Salk polio vaccine. In what came to be known as the Cutter Incident, some lots of the Cutter vaccine – despite having passed the required safety tests – contained live polio virus in what was supposed to be an inactivated-virus vaccine. Cutter withdrew its vaccine from the market on April 27 after vaccine-associated cases were reported.

  8. ant says:

    ‘Cutter Incident’, 120,000 people were mistakenly vaccinated with live polio.

  9. ant says:

    The largest fine of $3bn, imposed on the UK-based company GlaxoSmith-Kline in July after it admitted three counts of criminal behaviour in the US courts, was the largest ever. But GSK is not alone – nine other companies have had fines imposed, ranging from $420m on Novartis to $2.3bn on Pfizer since 2009, totalling over $11bn.

  10. ant says:

    building your trust on dollar at a time

      • riandouglas says:

        The study which is being referenced on that link is referring to Asia, where HepB is far more prevalent.
        The link also doesn’t seem to make note that HepB infection results in serious problems far more frequently in children (some 90% of infant infection result in serious problems, while some 90% of adult infections are cleared).

        Also, once again, you source fails the homeopathy quack test :-)

        • Don't ever vaccinate!!! says:

          It’s enough evidence to make an informed decision not to vaccinate with the Hep B. Sounds like this vaccine can’t help with the 90% problem anyway. Time for new solutions.

      • riandouglas says:

        It’s enough evidence to make an informed decision not to vaccinate with the Hep B.
        Actually it’s not. It’s evidence that the HepB vaccine is not as effective in Asia, not that the HepB vaccine is ineffective or that the costs of it outweigh the benefits.

        Sounds like this vaccine can’t help with the 90% problem anyway.
        Did you read the paper at all?
        From the abstract:
        “Several strategies for the control and prevention of HBV infection have been found to be efficacious. They include vaccination and the administration of HBIG, interferon-a and nucleoside/nucleotide analogues. “
        So vaccination for HepB is effective.
        The main point of the paper isn’t that HepB vaccination is inneffective, but that use of the vaccine produces selective pressure on the HepB virus which can lead to infections which aren’t detected by standard tests.

        From the conclusion of the paper:
        “A debate has begun about whether or not the development of vaccines, which protect against mutant strains of HBV, need to be used in conjunction with the wild-type vaccine. No matter how this debate is resolved in the future, research has already shown that mutant strain vaccines can be protective against mutant strains.”

        So, in populations where infection is endemic, the vaccine applies selective pressure on the virus in infected individuals which can lead to mutations against which the vaccine is less or not effective, and which aren’t detected by standard tests, which could lead to infected individuals donating blood, which is a cause for concern.
        Vaccines against these mutant strains have been developed and are effective, and can be used to combat this issue.

        I guess you didn’t read the paper.

        Time for new solutions.
        Yet the paper indicates that new vaccines ARE a solution to this problem.
        What do you propose, and how do you know that this solution is effective?

      • riandouglas says:

        Yes – Utter fail
        “Achievements in Public Health: Hepatitis B Vaccination”
        The incidence of HepB has PLUMMETED since the introduction of universal vaccination. Vaccinating high risk individuals did not have as much of an impact.

  11. ant says:

    The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation says:
    “Worldwide efforts in the last two decades have reduced the number of polio cases by 99 percent. Until we reach eradication, however, we are working with governments and all partners in the polio effort to ensure no child is at risk of either contracting or transmitting this crippling disease.”
    In fact, the study showed that 81 percent of 2010 California whooping cough cases in people under the age of 18 occurred in those who were fully up to date on the whooping cough vaccine.

    • riandouglas says:

      I’ve already gone through the reasons why simply stating stats like this are useless – If 9 in 10 unvaccinated get pertussis, while only 1 in 10 of vaccinated do, but 99% of the population is vaccinated, then in a population of 100,000, we have 99,000 vaccinated, with 9,900 cases of whooping cough, and 1,000 unvaccinated with 900 cases of whooping cough among them. So even though the vaccine prevents 80% of whooping cough cases, the vaccinated make up some 90% of individuals who have the disease.

  12. ant says:

    An investigation into an outbreak in a high school in a town that was heavily hit by the virus found that about half of the cases were in teens who had received the recommended two doses of vaccine in childhood — in other words, teens whom authorities would have expected to have been protected from the measles virus.

    It’s generally assumed that the measles vaccine, when given in a two-dose schedule in early childhood, should protect against measles infection about 99 per cent of the time. So the discovery that 52 of the 98 teens who caught measles were fully vaccinated came as a shock to the researchers who conducted the investigation.

    “That’s the real question. How could that have happened?” said Dr. Gaston De Serres, an infectious diseases expert with Quebec’s public health agency and one of the authors of the study.

    Read more: http://www.disclose.tv/forum/measles-flair-up-among-already-vaccinated-kids-t66951.html#ixzz2lQYJ4O4v

    • riandouglas says:

      Ant, without details of population from which the infected came from, and the exposure rates, these stats are useless.
      For instance, if the 2-dose vaccination was 99% effective, and the exposed population from which the 52 students were drawn was on the order of 5,000, then ~50 is the number of cases we would expect to see (50 is 1% of 5,000).

    • riandouglas says:

      This link looks to be the source of your link.

      Here’s a paper from the Dr de Serres mentioned “Higher risk of measles when the first dose of a 2-dose schedule of measles vaccine is given at 12-14 months versus 15 months of age.”
      From the paper:
      RESULTS:Among 1306 students, 110 measles cases were identified; 98 were classical cases, and 12 were attenuated cases. The attack rates among unvaccinated and fully vaccinated students were 82% and 4.8%, respectively. The VE among 2-dose recipients was 95.5% against classical and 94.2% against all (classical + attenuated) measles. Among 2-dose recipients, attack rates with first immunization at 12 and ≥15 months of age were 5.8% and 2.0%, respectively, with corresponding VE values of 93.0% and 97.5%. The risk of measles in 2-dose recipients was significantly (3-4-fold) higher when vaccine was first administered at 12 months of age, compared with ≥15 months of age (P = .04).
      CONCLUSION: Despite compliance with the recommended 2-dose measles immunization schedule, 6% of high school students were susceptible during this outbreak. Residual susceptibility was 2-4-fold higher among 2-dose recipients who had received the first dose of vaccine prior to 15 months of age. If confirmed in other settings, these results suggest that administration of the first dose of measles vaccine before 15 months of age may not be optimal for measles elimination efforts.”

      So, far from demonstrating that 2-dose MMR vaccination is ineffective, it shows that the timing of the vaccination may be important. Note that the protection conferred in both the 2-dose groups is still very high (>90% for both groups).

      You’ll also note that attack rates mentioned – 4.8% for vaccinated and 82% for unvaccinated.

  13. ant says:

    In India, over 47,000 cases of NPAFP were reported in 2011. The paralysis symptoms of NPAFP are practically the same as what’s attributed to “eradicated” wild virus polio. Apparently, vaccine polio viruses also cause polio paralysis.
    What is done with OPVs that are produced but banned in the West? Dump them on third world countries with the humanitarian cover that they are less expensive and easier to administer to large groups simultaneously.

    • riandouglas says:

      As I’ve said before OPV’s are NOT banned in the west.

      OPV’s are far more effective against wild-type polio, but have higher risks associated with them. The vaccines administered in the west are less effective but carry fewer risks.
      So, where Polio is endemic, it makes sense to accept the higher risk, since the chance of exposure is so much higher. Where polio is not endemic, the higher risk of the OPV is no longer justified, and so it is not used.

  14. ant says:

    “In 2011 there were an extra 47500 new cases of NPAFP [non-polio acute flaccid paralysis]. Clinically indistinguishable from polio paralysis but twice as deadly, the incidence of NPAFP was directly proportional to doses of oral polio received. Through this data was collected within the polio surveillance system, it was not investigated.”
    “It has been reported in the Lancet that the incidence of AFP, especially non-polio AFP has increased exponentially in India after a high potency polio vaccine was introduced (25)
    This shows that the non-polio AFP rate increases in proportion to the number of polio vaccines doses received in each area.
    It is tempting to speculate what could have been achieved if the $2.5 billion spent on attempting to eradicate polio were spent on water and sanitation and routine immunization.”

  15. Angie says:

    I want to add my 2 cents by sayn this: i have one child! Four months Ago i had her. She has no vaccines yet & i like Matt will decide on wat vaccines she will get not the Government… Am i fool? I am watever any1 sees me As bcuz guess wat My only child came out of my vagina & no 1 is going to tell me wats right/wrong if i wanna throw her out a window, who will mourn her? None of u cuz none of care About my daughter! & if not getn her shots puts er1 else at risk, lol so fuck er1 else. & if my daughter dies it was the Lords will i will not worry about it!!

    • riandouglas says:

      Do you also drive at whatever speed you want with your daughter in the vehicle – it puts everyone else on the roads at risk, but fuck them, right?
      And if you die and kill your daughter and people around you, it was the Lords will, wasn’t it?

  16. mama44 says:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am so tired of people who have read NOTHING, telling me I am single handedly causing epidemics of disease! (only slightly exaggerating) I am an American living in a foreign country currently fighting for my 4th child not to have to have the hep b shot. The choice is an easy one for me, she will be home school before she ever gets that shot. I cannot comprehend that parents who love there kids hand their babies over for that. When they come up with a syphilis vaccine will they be giving that to their newborns too? Where is the responsibility for actions? Choice and accountability, that’s what I have been teaching for 15 years now as a mom. Why would I become a hypocrite when it come to this or with Gardasil? YEESH!

    • Sarah says:

      Single-handedly you are not. But there are dozens of misinformed families like yours, then yes, you are definitely a part of the reason diseases like measles and polio are not being eradicated.

  17. Kaylynn says:

    Hi Matt!

    This was excellently written and well handled given how (I’ll use your words) ‘mindless’ the response from Kevin was. The topic of vaccinations these days are much like politics and religion- you disagree or your views differ from someone else’s and they take it so very personal as if it’s going to truly effect their personal lives. Note that the masses are indeed often following parenting trends and what the magazines or TV tells them to do versus educating themselves on what their doing to their children- if you ask me, the thought of having parents such as this raise a nation of children is a scary, scary thought. The problem with vaccines however, starts with the doctors I believe, doctors are suppose to be a figure in society that you can trust, all the while the pharmaceutical are have been pushing for vaccines the past few decades, some doctors actually consider this a ‘Vaccination Edpidemic’. CDC clearly states the list of chemicals in each vaccine, if you do independent research on these chemicals and the harmful effects they have on the body- especially when introduced straight into the blood stream then maybe the opinions of some parents would change but on a basis of their own doing- not because someone else is telling them it’s the right thing to do.

    I’m a 23 year old college student, I can’t remember the last time I’ve had the flu. I am healthy, I take care of my body by eating right and avoid harmful chemicals that way as well and I have never been vaccinated. Neither has my sister or my brother who mind you..are very healthy individuals as well. No illnesses no sicknesses. I thank (indefinitely) my parents for taking their own time to decide what was best for us when we were babies and I’ll do the same for my children one day. Your article was refreshing to read.

    Warmly,
    Kaylynn

    • riandouglas says:

      CDC clearly states the list of chemicals in each vaccine, if you do independent research on these chemicals and the harmful effects they have on the body- especially when introduced straight into the blood stream then maybe the opinions of some parents would change but on a basis of their own doing- not because someone else is telling them it’s the right thing to do.
      Which chemicals are you talking about?
      I’ve previously debunked in detail the claim that the formadehyde in vaccines is “toxic”.
      Have you actually done your own research on this matter, and looked at the concentration at which the chemical becomes toxic, and the amount which is found in a vaccine?

      Remember, even water, at a high enough dose, becomes toxic and can kill you.

      • Katie says:

        Wow…nontoxic formaldehyde…OK…

      • riandouglas says:

        Katie, your body produces and breaks down formaldehyde all the time, in greater volumes than is found in vaccines. If you search back in the comments you’ll find one from me indicating the amounts found in the blood, as well as the amount of time it takes to be broken down again.

  18. Jonestown Punch says:

    ‘riandouglas’ – you have had your ass handed to you. Love it.

    • riandouglas says:

      Any particular comment you had in mind here?
      I’ll admit I haven’t bothered following the comments closely for a while, so perhaps I missed it.

  19. Green Pete says:

    There is so much misinformation out there, it’s hard to know what to believe!

    http://www.thechronik.com/would-you-vaccinate-your-kids

  20. Howdy! This is kind of off topic but I need spme help from an established blog.
    Is it difficult to set up your own blog? I’m not very techincal but I can figure things out pretty fast.
    I’m thinking about setfting up my own but I’m not sure where to start.

    Do you have any tips or suggestions? Appreciate it

  21. Don't vaccinate!!! EVER!!!! says:

    The lawsuits are in Vaccine Court which is paid with the tax on the vaccines! NOT the pharma companies. They are IMMUNE from lawsuits. Get your facts straight!!! RIANDOUGLAS pharma shill troll….

    • riandouglas says:

      DVE, there have been a number of lawsuits bought against pharmaceutical companies, linked on this blog. Did you miss them?

      Yes, a private individual who claims vaccine injury must go through the vaccine court. That doesn’t mean the pharma companies are immune from lawsuits – the govt has brought lawsuits against pharma companies for providing inferior products like vaccines which are not as effective as claimed.

      Your fearmongering and hatred of vaccination and modern medicine are nothing more than emotional reactions, and are not supported by the facts concerning reality.

    • riandouglas says:

      DVE, I notice that you continue making the same claims, but you don’t bother to respond to my criticism of your claims.

      it’s as if argument and evidence don’t matter, and you’re so emotionally attached to you conclusion that no amount of evidence could ever convince you.

    • riandouglas says:

      The vaccine court legislation DOES NOT prevent you from filing a suit in a court of law.
      You can still do so, though you normally file with the vaccine court beforehand.

      The vaccine court, however, places a FAR LOWER burden of proof on the claimant than is required in a normal court of law. It is MORE likely that you will win compensation in the vaccine court than in a standard court of law.

      But don’t let the facts get in the way of your anti-vax narrative.

  22. Hello Matt Walsh,

    I agree with the idea that it is important to make the decision of vaccination for yourself. I also feel that it is necessary to do your own research and find out information regarding vaccines and why we take them.

    Would you mind reading my blog at http://dev.isucomm.iastate.edu/thegreenroom/tharris ? I would like to have your perspective.

    Tiffany Harris
    The Green Room at Iowa State University

  23. Liz says:

    wow! well said Matt!! I hope you will be a speaker to many on this terrible vaccine epidemic! people are so morphed into thinking the “Government & Pharmaceutical companies ” are for them?!! -that it’s not a money making market & they are not concerned with the endless epidemic of children developing autism or dying, nhttp://vactruth.com/2013/08/17/baby-dies-after-8-vaccines/
    so thankyou to vaccines for “saving” our kids as Piemel puts it.
    BTW, in a grand scheme of things if you are getting your children vaccinated, why would you be afraid of an unvaccinated person?- i thought you were now immune to it? -is that logical?
    Anyway Thank you loved the sarcasm too, seems like people give it to you (us) and are mad when it comes back tenfold. Kudos to you Matt!!
    what I see below is a lot of yelling with NO facts at all just a lot of talking. where us the research for your children? I’ve read books (medical/ theorists/etc.) both sides in fact, some doctors go with the flow not to loose a job, or do believe in them. And some doctors quit as they see the harm. Lets not just argue get the evidence from both sides and make Your decision. I wish you luck either way because it will hurt the parent; for the Proadvocate- if immunizations do damage or kill your child; and the Anti- if your child gets infected and dies. Either outcome is a sad one. Make the choice you can Live with because it will be something you must deal with on a daily basis. I’ve heard people for it and loose their children to autism or death. The stakes seem too high for me, when I hear no bad outcomes for those that choose not to get them?

    • riandouglas says:

      Perhaps you missed the part where Matt only avoided the HepB vaccine, and got his child all the others.

      BTW, in a grand scheme of things if you are getting your children vaccinated, why would you be afraid of an unvaccinated person?- i thought you were now immune to it? -is that logical?
      Vaccines do not provide perfect immunity/protection, some people should not be vaccinated, vaccines are less effective in some people, etc.

      I’ve heard people for it and loose their children to autism or death.
      There’s no link between vaccines and autism. None. If you’d actually read up on this you would know that and wouldn’t repeat this false claim.
      Serious complications resulting from vaccines are VERY rare, death even more so (if at all).

      The stakes seem too high for me, when I hear no bad outcomes for those that choose not to get them?
      I guess you must be selectively listening then. Either that or the suffering, complications and occasional death due to vaccine preventable diseases must not be “bad outcomes” in your mind.

  24. karen says:

    I was not born in USA but I am an American citizen, I think a shot for a newborn baby for Hep B is very stupid unless the mom had it. I Have a master degree and I am always searching for information, but common that shot is just ridiculous. I don’t understand why Americans just put anything on their babies without finding some information on their one. I think a responsible parent is the one that searches for information and evaluates the pros and con not just a robot that obeys some nurses at a hospital.

    • riandouglas says:

      I think a shot for a newborn baby for Hep B is very stupid unless the mom had it.
      Why is it stupid?
      The risks of complications from the shot are very very low. The risks of serious complications from HepB infection in an infant are very high. So even if the risk of infection is quite low, it might be better to have the shot administered – there are other ways an infant or child could be infected than mother to child transmission, and perhaps the mother isn’t even aware they have it.
      This paper – “Childhood hepatitis B virus infections in the United States before hepatitis B immunization.” – indicates that the routine HepB shot has been a boon in reducing the incidence of HepB infections in this vulnerable demographic.
      Wouldn’t you say that’s a positive thing?

      I think a responsible parent is the one that searches for information and evaluates the pros and con not just a robot that obeys some nurses at a hospital.
      I completely agree. Of course the quality of the information you use comes into play here – the majority of anti-vax information is of a very low quality.

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  26. Oh No Not Hep B Vaccine! says:

    Vaccine injury is not common. That would make me one in a million? In a medical school program I was required to receive the Hepatitis B Vaccine series. I did. Within 3 weeks of the initial shot I had vision trouble, grey patchy vision left eye. Within 3 months of the initial shot I had numbness of both of my thighs. I was a 28 year old caucasion female with 2 young children. I was a workout fanatic, health food nut, and on a mission to be a fit, healthy mom! I attributed the leg numbness to working out and the vision problem to needing to change contact lenses. The symptoms abated and I didn’t think about it for a couple of years, until in residency I was simply exhausted and the grey patchy spots were back. Within 3 months of reappearance of this same symptom, I lost total vision left eye and was taken in for an emergency MRI. I had full blown multiple sclerosis.
    Let me ask you this, oh wise ones….would ANY of you, ANY ONE, who believes in the merits of vaccines as I once did, vaccinate your children with a vaccine that triggered multiple sclerosis in a parent. Yes, it is now well documented that this was a “vaccine injury”, triggered by the hepatitis B Vaccine. On an aside note, I was remarried and have a child with a 2nd husband. He too suffered a well documented vaccine injury, although not permanently disabling, for my 3rd and last child. Given this history, how many of you would still vaccinate this child with the Hepatitis B vaccine? I guess his dad and I are one in a million, so what does that make the little one?

    • riandouglas says:

      I am sorry to hear that you have MS.

      However, I wasn’t able to find any evidence of a causal link between vaccination with HBV and MS.
      Can you provide some solidly attested scientific evidence for such a link?

  27. K says:

    I think you expect that your children’s lives and choices (and all the people surrounding them) will be completely under control and to your knowledge, by the way you speak in the paragraph about hep b. Until society does make those changes, you need to be prepared for anything to happen. What happens if your child experiments with drugs? Uses a friends razor when the forget theirs? Not every partner they have will know about std’s, or tell the truth about them. What if they are raped? None of these situations would imply they made these choices/choices were made for them because you are bad parents, but you CANNOT control decisions like this. When your daughter’s being pressured into not using a condom, how can you be sure she’ll be able to not give in? People in old age are also some of the most at risk for sti’s because they figure, ‘well, no chance of pregnancy!’

    Your points may be more valid IF society was far enough ahead and HEP B was eradicated already, but until we get to that point, please don’t rule out the possibility of any of these unfortunate events from happening. You can teach to your best power, but you will not be able to know about and control all of the events in your child’s life.

  28. byrdcreative says:

    Lets all take a moment and visit this child’s memorial page:

    http://www.iansvoice.org/

    This is a child who clearly DIED because his parents chose to go along with the Hep B vaccine.

    I figure my infant’s chances of recreational drug use and causal sex are next to nothing compared to the 1 percent (and frankly ANY percent is too much) that this would happen to them. No thank you.

    Sure you vaccinated your kids. And they turned out fine. Fine. Your choice. But I’m not risking it.

    • riandouglas says:

      This is a child who clearly DIED because his parents chose to go along with the Hep B vaccine.

      While that story is tragic, the claim that the poor infant died due to the HepB vaccine and not some other cause, isn’t clear at all.

      I figure my infant’s chances of recreational drug use and causal sex are next to nothing compared to the 1 percent (and frankly ANY percent is too much) that this would happen to them. No thank you.

      Where did you get the 1% figure from? That’s FAR larger than the reality.
      Also, where did you learn that HebP can only be transmitted in those ways? The risks are far larger, due to HepB’s ability to live for 7+ days outside the body. Do you know that all of your childs playmates and carers are HepB free? Did you know that infant HepB causes serious complications (live liver cancer) in 90% of cases?

      Sure you vaccinated your kids. And they turned out fine. Fine. Your choice. But I’m not risking it.

      You appear to be basing this decision on bad data. As such, it’s a bad decision.

  29. Jen W says:

    You are an intelligent, free-thinking (wow, rare in America these days!), conscious parent, Matt. My ex-husband went against my research-based, thoughtful vaccine schedule and “caught up” on all “missed” for my two children. The youngest, only 18 months old, was on life support within 2 hours of those vaccines. She survived, but subsequently has chemical sensitivity, brain damage and lifelong learning challenges. Oh, and she ended up with lymphoma at the age of 8 (after living organically and homegrown–go figure! Yes, Vaccines are toxins.) Because of her chemical sensitivities, my new and intelligent husband and I refused chemotherapy and due to the education I gained from the earlier vaccine nightmare, the alternative healing approaches we took (immune-system-boosting supplements, treatments and nutrition) cured her cancer; she has not had it recur for 8 years. Neither of my children (or animals) have been vaxed since that horrible day, and prove to be some of the healthiest teens & young adults we know. Last year our region experienced a pertussis epidemic, and over 90% of the kids who went to the hospital and missed school were fully VACCINATED! My youngest, then 15, had a persistent cough, which from titer tests showed a mild infection, but never missed school or felt truly ‘ill’. She cured it easily with nutrition, supplements, and inhaled glutathione. Every year I get titer tests for my children and they still, after 15 years, prove FULL immunity. No additional shots were needed. If the rabid pro-vax parents actually understood the intention of vaccines, they would get titer tests done BEFORE sticking needles and chemicals into their children.

    Stay strong amid the sheeple, Matt. The public believed the Earth was flat once, too.

    • riandouglas says:

      Last year our region experienced a pertussis epidemic, and over 90% of the kids who went to the hospital and missed school were fully VACCINATED!

      Without knowing the ratio of vaccinated to unvaccinated, this statistic is uselesss.
      If 99% of children are vaccinated, then the overwhelming number of those affected would be vaccinated, which having a far lower rate of incidence among the vaccinated – perhaps only 5% of those who were vaccinated caught the disease, while 90% of the unvaccinated did. That would be a win for vaccines, I would think.

      My youngest, then 15, had a persistent cough, which from titer tests showed a mild infection, but never missed school or felt truly ‘ill’.

      Did this test show a pertusis infection, or a mild respiratory tract infection?

      She cured it easily with nutrition, supplements, and inhaled glutathione.

      Were those things a part of your child getting better, or was it simply the normal progression of the infection?

      If the rabid pro-vax parents actually understood the intention of vaccines

      What is the intention of vaccines?

      Stay strong amid the sheeple, Matt. The public believed the Earth was flat once, too.

      You realise that Matt is pro-vaccine, having gotten his child fully vaccinated (apart from the HepB vaccine, due to some misinformation on his part it seems)?
      You realise that the denial of reality which is a part of the anti-vax position has far more in common with the Flat Earth’ers than does those who advocate for vaccination?

  30. Why do you care if my child doesn’t get the Hep B shot? If your child did, then they are protected from my child, right?

    • riandouglas says:

      Because vaccines aren’t 100% protection, because your child can then serve as a vector to children who can’t be vaccinated, and because I care about your childs health as well.

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  32. Ann says:

    question.

    HAVE ALL OF YOU PRO-VACCINE PEOPLE OUT THERE BEEN VACCINATED WITH EVERY VACCINE THAT YOUR CHILD HAS? The answer to that question is UNLIKELY because none of us has been offered any of them since we went to kindergarten ourselves decades ago.

    So with that being said – HOW ARE UN-VACCINATED ADULTS ANY SAFER THAN UNVACCINATED CHILDREN? The answer is they’re not. School teachers, medical professionals, coaches, adults out in the community, none of them have had to be vaccinated since childhood. Although in rare circumstances, some medical professionals that risk coming in contact with blood may have had the hep B vaccines but yet it isn’t required but sometimes highly recommended in most cases. I know because I come from a large family of medical professionals and teachers.

    How many of us have had a single vaccine since we entered kindergarten decades ago? If disease were such a threat to mankind: then don’t you think that we should ALL be vaccinated not just our children? Yet we aren’t…. why not? Because big pharma companies know that once a child begins school, they are rarely taken to the doctor unless they are ill at which time, vaccines are not supposed to be given, so they have to target the “well child” checkups.

    If there is such a risk, why aren’t the elderly getting all these same vaccines to help protect them being that they are supposedly at the same risk as children?

    My closest friend is a pediatrician and has openly admitted that in medical school they are taught to target the newborn to toddler age because 1) they have no memory of the shots and therefore don’t have fear of the doctors as they get older 2) well child check ups are guaranteed revenue because most parents buy into the fact that these checkups are needed when in fact most are un-necessary. 3) that once a child hits their teen years and through their adulthood, the chances of them going in for a “routine” vaccine is next to nothing.

    Why are so many people worried about whether or not a child is vaccinated or not? You either believe that the vaccines work or you don’t.

    Heard immunity is a complete joke and a lie. And I can say that with 100% confidence because as adults, when was the last vaccine you all got? I was entering Kindergarten back in 1972. Haven’t had a tentinus vaccine since I was 15 and don’t ever plan to again because it doesn’t come from rusty nails or dirt, it comes from infected pig feces in which most pig farmers vaccinate for and I don’t own any pigs.

    There have been countless new vaccines developed since 1986 and not a single adult that I know of including school teachers, medical professionals, or any other adult has gotten any of them. Perhaps a rare few medical professionals that come in contact with blood but aside from that, no other adults are even offered the opportunity so therefore why are people so worried about so few unvaccinated children when there are billions of unvaccinated adults out there being exposed to the same things our children are exposed too.

    Every member of my family has been seriously cut by various metal objects or been bitten and soap, water, iodine and probiotics keeps away infection.

    I was a blind follower until serious side affects of my son, a nephew, and multiple friends children were critically injured and 2 died following a set of vacs, I began my research. I am sad to say, as a parent who has had to live with the guilt of injury to a child, I would strongly encourage each of you to do your own research. Don’t listen to me or anyone else. Each parent needs to do their homework and decide for themselves what they are comfortable with. I have many friends that vaccinate, I have many who don’t. I started them with some of my children and never finished them with others. That is my right as a parent who researched thoroughly both sides.

    My biggest factors for my decision were the ingredient list and known side affects on the CDC’s own website. In addition to the already obvious neurotoxins and carcinogens, several vaccines list sterility agents and I hope to someday have grandchildren. Some also use aborted fetuses and I am pro-life therefore they go against my religious beliefs as well as my philosophical beliefs.

    • riandouglas says:

      There have been countless new vaccines developed since 1986 and not a single adult that I know of including school teachers, medical professionals, or any other adult has gotten any of them.

      Non of those people have travelled overseas, or gotten a flu vaccination due to their work with immuno-compromised people (as happens with medical professionals), or got a booster shot for tetanus or something else?
      I find that very hard to believe.

      That is my right as a parent who researched thoroughly both sides.

      It sounds like your research wasn’t very effective, since you seem to have some misunderstandings and misconceptions.

      My biggest factors for my decision were the ingredient list and known side affects on the CDC’s own website.

      Which ingredients, and which side effects?

      It sounds like you haven’t research very thoroughly at all, but rather have latched on to some anti-vaccination talking points as if they were solidly supported scientific facts.

    • riandouglas says:

      Why are so many people worried about whether or not a child is vaccinated or not?

      Because we live in a society, where unvaccinated people constitute a net detriment to our shared medical costs, where they constitute a means for transmission of these diseases, where they endanger those who are unable to receive vaccination or are unresponsive to it.
      In society, our decisions have an effect on people other than ourselves. Surely we ought to take others into consideration when making decisions like that?

      You either believe that the vaccines work or you don’t.

      Vaccines work. That is a fact. Those people who don’t believe this are in denial of reality. Regardless of how strongly you believe something to be true, reality does not conform to your wishes.

      • Ann says:

        As I stated: go to the CDC website, read the list of ingredients and their known side affects. Autism alone is listed as a known side affect in at least 3 if not more vaccines. Learning disabilities is listed in others, seizures, death and many other symptoms are listed. Not a single vaccine is listed without a side affect so therefore can’t be considered 100% safe.

        My point is that we can’t blame disease on unvaccinated children when we adults have not been given those same vaccines. Yet you aren’t worried about being a carrier yourself?

        Bottom line is that there is no long term proof or evidence that they are as effective as they say. Follow the money of biased research and you will find that the only studies are those paid for by our big pharma companies. That doesn’t sit too well with me.

        My responsibility is to my children’s health and well being not to those around me. I am no longer willing to put my children’s health at a higher risk from vaccines in the unlikely event that a treatable disease occurs. We are living in the century where modern medicine can treat many of these diseases. More children have been injured or died as a result of vaccines rather than the disease itself. I think I will take my chances on nature rather than on man.

        Should any of my children choose to inject themselves with toxic chemicals when they are older, then that is their choice but I have already had to live with the guilt from one of my children’s side affects, I am not going to risk another.

        It’s easy to judge a parent who has had to live with the guilt of harming or losing a child from a vaccine but until you personally have felt that pain, you will never understand. I too was close minded and blindly trusted the medical field on this one and I got burnt and so did several others that I personally know. I did my research, thoroughly on both sides, I didn’t make a blind decision to stop vaccinating, but I found 100% zero data or evidence that supported vaccines that was not directly paid for and supported by the companies making vaccines. That doesn’t sit well with me.

        Let’s face it, these big pharma companies are the same companies funding our medical schools. They have a lot to lose should they allow any other non-profitable teachings in the class room.

        So answer the question, have you yourself had all 36+ vaccines that your child has had? Probably not, so therefore you can be a carrier yourself and yet you continue to judge others. I had 8 vaccines (few of which are the same today) as a child and none since, they’ve never even been offered to me, so if they really work and prevent disease so well why aren’t they being offered to prevent the spread of disease? How is it that adults aren’t at risk or carriers of these vary diseases and the blame is put on unvaccinated children alone. Hello, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that there is no logic to the madness….

        • Ann says:

          PS riandouglas, you obviously don’t have much faith in your vaccines or you wouldn’t be worrying so much about the unvaccinated.

        • Ann says:

          riandouglas, you yourself stated that vaccines do not prevent disease 100% yet later stated that they are “work”. Which is it? The whole purpose of getting them is to protect us from disease yet you are correct when you say that there is guarantee of 100% effectiveness.

          What we do know is that 100% all vacs contain hazzardous materials, some of which can cause serious side affects and death. We evacuate a school when a mercury thermometer breaks yet we inject in into our infants…. doesn’t make much sense to me.
          We have a much more likelihood of having a serious side affect or dying from a vaccine than we do from the treatable disease itself with today’s modern medicine.

          You chose for your family and I will choose for mine. I won’t judge you for your decision and you don’t judge me for mine.

        • riandouglas says:

          As I stated: go to the CDC website, read the list of ingredients and their known side affects.

          I asked which ones you were worried about.
          I’ve already debunked the claim that formaldehyde in vaccines as being a problem.

          Autism alone is listed as a known side affect in at least 3 if not more vaccines.

          There has never been a solid link made between vaccines and autism. Please provide a link to the page you’re looking at, as you seem to be reading something which is false.

          Learning disabilities is listed in others, seizures, death and many other symptoms are listed.

          Possible side effects, not likely side effects. Do you understand the side-effects of the diseases the vaccines protect against? Do you understand what the probabilities for each case are (for example, death from measles versus death from the measles vaccine)?
          In all cases I’m aware of, any serious side effects from vaccination are extremely rare, while complications from the diseases are far more likely – even taking into account the fact that you might not catch the disease.

          Not a single vaccine is listed without a side affect so therefore can’t be considered 100% safe.

          Nothing is 100% safe. Water has side effects and can be deadly.

          My point is that we can’t blame disease on unvaccinated children when we adults have not been given those same vaccines.

          We can blame those people who choose not to get vaccinated for poor reasons – like claiming vaccines are dangerous when they’re not.

          Yet you aren’t worried about being a carrier yourself?

          Actually, I am and do.

          Bottom line is that there is no long term proof or evidence that they are as effective as they say.

          This is false – there are plenty of studies which look at the incidence of various diseases in various populations, which can tell us what the effectiveness of a vaccine and vaccination schedule is.

          Follow the money of biased research and you will find that the only studies are those paid for by our big pharma companies. That doesn’t sit too well with me.

          Then you should be lobbying for more research government research dollars.
          I certainly hope you don’t dismiss all the research as being biased, as that’s irrational. Assessing each study on a case by case basis is the approach you ought to be using.
          If you go back through my comments here, you’ll see I’ve discussed quite a number of studies, both pro-vaccine and anti-vaccine, and I’ve pointed out where and why various studies are flawed, and whether or not the results ought to be accepted, and the conclusions follow from those results.
          The anti-vax commenters on this blog, however, have dismissed out of hand nearly every study presented, without presenting a reasoned argument as to why the study is useless.

          My responsibility is to my children’s health and well being not to those around me.

          Then please go live as a hermit, to avoid interacting with others and endangering them.

          I am no longer willing to put my children’s health at a higher risk from vaccines in the unlikely event that a treatable disease occurs.

          Vaccines = low risk.
          Disease = higher risk.
          If your priority was to your childrens health, then you’d vaccinate them (assuming they were not in a group which shouldn’t or couldn’t be vaccinated). You would also advocate vaccination for others (esp. if you or your children could not be vaccinated).
          To do otherwise is to put yourself and/or your children at far greater risk of suffering, seriously complication, and possibly death.

          We are living in the century where modern medicine can treat many of these diseases.

          And a part of that treatment is vaccination.

          More children have been injured or died as a result of vaccines rather than the disease itself.

          What absolute rubbish. I’d love to see what statistics you could pull together to support that claim.

          I think I will take my chances on nature rather than on man.

          This is nature which came up with polio, smallpox, HIV, various cancers, and so on?

          but I have already had to live with the guilt from one of my children’s side affects, I am not going to risk another.

          If your child actually had a serious complication resulting from vaccination, and your not simply mistaking correlation with causation, then you should be advocating all the more for others to be vaccinated, since your child will be relying upon herd immunity more than if they were fully vaccinated.

          I too was close minded and blindly trusted the medical field on this one and I got burnt and so did several others that I personally know.

          I hope you’re not confusing anecdotal evidence with hard scientific data?

          I did my research, thoroughly on both sides,

          There are no “sides” here. The scientific evidence is firmly in favour of vaccinating. The “other side” is based upon flawed arguments and emotion.

          I didn’t make a blind decision to stop vaccinating,

          It sounds like you made your decision based upon bad arguments and poor evidence.

          but I found 100% zero data or evidence that supported vaccines that was not directly paid for and supported by the companies making vaccines. That doesn’t sit well with me.

          There can be problems with conflicts of interest, but it is not necessarily the case. I hope you didn’t dismiss all of the solid research? I hope you didn’t accept all of the rubbish research put out by anti-vaxers?
          I hope you assessed each scientific paper on it’s own merits to arive at your conclusion.

          Probably not, so therefore you can be a carrier yourself and yet you continue to judge others.

          I judge others for advocating a position not based upon solid evidence.

          so if they really work and prevent disease so well why aren’t they being offered to prevent the spread of disease?

          If your contention that vaccines were only about profit were true, they would be marketed far more aggressively, wouldn’t they?
          And yet here you are acknowledging that vaccines are not marketed aggressively enough.

          Hello, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that there is no logic to the madness….

          Sometimes the disease is particularly dangerous in infancy or childhood (like HepB). Sometimes the disease is only very likely to be picked up during childhood or infancy.

        • riandouglas says:

          PS riandouglas, you obviously don’t have much faith in your vaccines or you wouldn’t be worrying so much about the unvaccinated.

          Unlike you, I am concerned about people other tham myself.
          I also realise that vaccines are not 100% effective. I understand how important herd immunity is to prevent the spread of a disease. I understand that there are individuals who, for various reasons, shouldn’t or can not be vaccinated. I understand that I am a part of a society, and that my choices impact other people, as their choices impact me.

        • riandouglas says:

          riandouglas, you yourself stated that vaccines do not prevent disease 100% yet later stated that they are “work”. Which is it?

          Depending on the vaccine and the schedule, they can prevent disease up to around 99% (and the low end is around 60-70% I think, for things like the flu vaccine, which is trying to hit a moving target).
          Something not being 100% effective doesn’t mean it isn’t effective at all. That’s like saying that because some planes crash, air travel isn’t effective. It’s ridiculous.

          The whole purpose of getting them is to protect us from disease yet you are correct when you say that there is guarantee of 100% effectiveness.

          Welcome to the real world, where 100% guarantees don’t exist, where there is no certainty, where we need to rely upon probabilities.

          What we do know is that 100% all vacs contain hazzardous materials, some of which can cause serious side affects and death.

          The “hazardous materials” are in such low doses that they have no serious effect. The amount of formaldehyde in a vaccine is less than the body of an infant makes and disposes of in a couple of minutes. The amount of thimerisol in the flu vaccine is flushed from your body in a few days (it is no longer present in childhood vaccines).
          The dose is an important part of the “hazzardous” tag – as I said earlier, even water is a hazardous material which can result in death and serious side effects.

          We evacuate a school when a mercury thermometer breaks yet we inject in into our infants…. doesn’t make much sense to me.

          Thermometers contain methyl mercury. Thimerisol is an ethyl mercury. Methy mercury accumulates far more readily in bodily tissues and the brain than does ethyl mercury. Ethyl mercury is flushed from your body far fast than merthyl mercury.
          You’re comparing apples and oranges – just because 2 things contain mercury doesn’t make them the same.

          We have a much more likelihood of having a serious side affect or dying from a vaccine than we do from the treatable disease itself with today’s modern medicine.

          Please provide some statistics for this.

          You chose for your family and I will choose for mine.

          That’s the problem – unless you and your family live away from other people, you’re not just choosing for your family. You’re choosing for the families of others. Perhaps one of your childrens playmates can’t be vaccinated for some reason. Your child being unvaccinated provides a pathway for that child to contract a disease.
          However, you and many of the other anti-vax commenters here don’t seem to care about other people.

          I won’t judge you for your decision and you don’t judge me for mine.

          Why wouldn’t I judge you for making a poor decision based upon what seems to be terrible evidence and bad arguments?
          If you chose to drive at twice the speed limit because you believed it was safe, and was better for your family (damn anyone else, right?), then wouldn’t I be right to judge you as being irresponsible?
          How is your decision to put your children and other people at greater risk of disease different?

  33. Haajar Eberle says:

    I admire your level headedness!! And the ability to respond to him without stooping down to his level… I call that intelligence :)

  34. Pingback: Eco Survival | I am a biological terrorist because my kids didn't get a vaccine | The …

  35. Heather Fick says:

    Go get em Matt! Excellent retort!!!!

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